Now that I'm seven or eight months deep into learning about firearms, firearms laws, and culture I've come across a possible predicament. It's a felony to be on school property with a firearm, even the driveway. Since I have obtained New Jersey CCW last week I've driven past some schools and thought, gosh if I get pulled over just passing by for some reason an officer is going to say on his loud speaker, "pull into the lot", if the shoulder is occupied by another vehicle, or if it is not not safe for pulling over at the immediate spot. If I ignore him and drive another hundred yards I'm toast, and if I listen I'm a felon. Either way I'm out a lot of money for a lawyer and could be in trouble. I know this is a vent and there's no good answer but thanks for reading.
New Jersey predicament potential
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Why would you be toast for driving another 300ft?
Put your flashers on and drive to a place you feel safe and legal to stop for the officer.
Yes! Keep in mind NJ has a law where you have to immediately notify LEO's that you're carrying or have a loaded gun in your vehicle. You don't want to have to do that in a prohibited location.
Click on NJ:
www.handgunlaw.us
nvbirdman
Blackhawk
Any lawyer would go into court and holler entrapment.
It doesn't have to be that way. MO changed it's 'gun free school zone' rules to allow a drive through or park near clause. Otherwise 1/2 the vehicles driving on the street/highway in front of the school would be in violation(at least in the rural areas o_O ).
there is a federal law that if you are in 1000 ft of a school then you in violation... so you are already technically screwed just driving by most schools... welcome to the convoluted gun world. 20,000+ laws that have by any one's standards have not fixed a thing.
GunnyGene
Hawkeye
There are exceptions in the Federal GFSZ Act. Don't know about NJ, but if you're really worried about it you can research it on the net, or contact a lawyer who can explain it to you. It's been challenged and amended several times and can be quite confusing.
I own 30acres that shares a property line with the local K-12 school, I shoot and used to hunt deer on it. I'm technically in violation of the act every time I leave or come home or mow the damn lawn. I carry a loaded firearm every time I leave the house, and have multiple guns loaded around the house. I've never had a problem with the school or the law. But this is MS, not NJ. MS is a permitless carry State, and our gun laws are considerably different than yours.:)
Here's what the ATF has to say about it, but don't assume this is the last word on the issue.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/guide/gun-free-school-zone-notice-atf-p-53101/download
I own 30acres that shares a property line with the local K-12 school, I shoot and used to hunt deer on it. I'm technically in violation of the act every time I leave or come home or mow the damn lawn. I carry a loaded firearm every time I leave the house, and have multiple guns loaded around the house. I've never had a problem with the school or the law. But this is MS, not NJ. MS is a permitless carry State, and our gun laws are considerably different than yours.:)
Here's what the ATF has to say about it, but don't assume this is the last word on the issue.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/guide/gun-free-school-zone-notice-atf-p-53101/download
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Fujicon
Bearcat
Don't get pulled over.
GunnyGene the reference you linked is about discharging a firearm in a school zone and specifically recklessly.
A couple years ago I got pulled over and the first thing the officer told me was that I was not doing anything illegal but my driving was suspicious.
A couple years ago I got pulled over and the first thing the officer told me was that I was not doing anything illegal but my driving was suspicious.
"there is a federal law that if you are in 1000 ft of a school then you in violation.."
Apparently not enforced in north MO. Most of the local schools are near/next to main highways. I'm 100% certain that many of the farm pickups in the school parking lots have guns inside.
Apparently not enforced in north MO. Most of the local schools are near/next to main highways. I'm 100% certain that many of the farm pickups in the school parking lots have guns inside.
It is one of those laws no one can reasonably obey... much like the Post Office one which is not only inside a post office but on postal property which here in my area is always the parking lot. The really stupid part about the Post Office law is look at the history of why it was made... the only shootings I know of in post offices (Going Postal) were by either current or ex postal employees. In my logical world if they wanted to pass a law then it should have been that employees or former employees can't carry in or near a post office. Oh, and as a side note.... one of the first guys to go postal was a relative of mine.
GunnyGene
Hawkeye
Yes, but it also references some of the general exceptions to the act.
MHtractorguy
Blackhawk
I have been pulled over and ended up stopped in a school zone. I kept my hands on the wheel, told the officer I have a CC permit, and I have a loaded handgun in the car. He took my license, which is the same number as my CCW, walked to his car, came back and advised me to slow down in the school zone and have a nice day.
North Carolina, not New Jersey.
North Carolina, not New Jersey.
GunnyGene
Hawkeye
That's usually how it goes. This is an even more useless, unenforceable, and ignored, law since permitless carry has become popular.
MHtractorguy
Blackhawk
I have been told that LEO like to see CCW citizens, because they know we have passed all of the background checks and safety courses( which were not quite adequate) and we are at least aware of the laws.
GunnyGene
Hawkeye
Different States, different rules. That shouldn't be the case, but it is what it is - at least for a while yet.
That's the idea Winston???
Illegal fishing trip to find your "Crime"!!!
Pál_K
Guns. I has it.
An RKBA group here pointed out that it is nearly impossible to go anywhere in this town without violating that perimeter somewhere.
Suspicious? In what way?
GunnyGene
Hawkeye
It will do that when you're a target. And make no mistake, every gun owner or even 7 year old potential gun owners, is a target. Some more than others but it's only a matter of degree. Welcome to the Range. :)
You need to learn more about your rights and how laws work. What exactly does your state say about an officer attempting to pull you over? Each state varies the wording. You read yours, basically it will say you the driver needs to yield and stop ASAP, unless some circumstances prevent that. Is being pulled over a lawful order? basically yes. Deep into reading your laws/rights. An officer cannot create a situation that forces you to break a law and arrest you for it.
In your worried description about having a firearm in a vehicle, being stopped and told to drive onto school property. Even if the officer thinks or believes you have a firearm, you have not committed a crime, you are following the officer's direction.
Now let's change the scene a bit. An officer attempts to stop you on a public street near school property and YOU choose to drive onto the property with a firearm knowing it's illegal. You created yourself the possibility of committing a crime. In my example, would or could you be arrested, yep.
In your worried description about having a firearm in a vehicle, being stopped and told to drive onto school property. Even if the officer thinks or believes you have a firearm, you have not committed a crime, you are following the officer's direction.
Now let's change the scene a bit. An officer attempts to stop you on a public street near school property and YOU choose to drive onto the property with a firearm knowing it's illegal. You created yourself the possibility of committing a crime. In my example, would or could you be arrested, yep.
"Pulled over for suspicious driving"
The officer explained it to me and I totally understood and did not have a problem with it or get an attitude like it seems so many on internet videos do. I was doing 45 to 50 mph on the interstate and swaying from side to side in my lane and the cop had been following me for several miles while I did this. He thought I was stoned. I was actually trying to figure out the my new GPS. When he told me why he had pulled me over and then asked if I had been drinking or was on something my response was, "you got to be kidding, it's 8:30 in the morning!?" He then said you would not believe what goes on out here.... We ending up having a good visit while he kept trying to get an official reply on his check on me through the radio.... talked guns and he even checked out the Ruger P95 I had in the van.
The officer explained it to me and I totally understood and did not have a problem with it or get an attitude like it seems so many on internet videos do. I was doing 45 to 50 mph on the interstate and swaying from side to side in my lane and the cop had been following me for several miles while I did this. He thought I was stoned. I was actually trying to figure out the my new GPS. When he told me why he had pulled me over and then asked if I had been drinking or was on something my response was, "you got to be kidding, it's 8:30 in the morning!?" He then said you would not believe what goes on out here.... We ending up having a good visit while he kept trying to get an official reply on his check on me through the radio.... talked guns and he even checked out the Ruger P95 I had in the van.
"Suspicious driving" may be lame words used for a lawful stop. Traffic violations are not crimes and rules for each are different for stopping and doing an investigation. Violations never need what a crime needs (probable cause) to stop and investigate. Violations only need reasonable suspicion or in Oregon that was redefined as the officer has sufficient grounds to believe a violation may have occurred. That is a really low bar to get over to make a stop.
Without writing a book, what Blume says he was doing met that bar easy. He was driving a vehicle on a public road in a manor consist with serious issues. DUII, DUI, sleepy driver, distracted driver or a driver having a medical emergency at any time of day or night. The officer did what he was paid to do. Blume was driving under the speed limit, 10 or more under is a major clue for being impaired. Swerving within a lane is another problem that each of the 6 things I listed people do.
In his case the officer understood Blume was none of the above, just adjusting/reading his GPS. He would never know unless he stopped Blume. In his case he could have been cited for careless driving (Oregon). If the officer could show other traffic, persons or property was at risk. It does not sound like that was present and no ticket was issued.
Many may not want police to stop drivers for "suspicious driving" but YOU and your families, if you travel on a public roadway are much safer when officers are willing to check drivers doing what he described. Just look up how many innocent people are killed or hurt yearly from drivers that fall into the categories that I listed.
Without writing a book, what Blume says he was doing met that bar easy. He was driving a vehicle on a public road in a manor consist with serious issues. DUII, DUI, sleepy driver, distracted driver or a driver having a medical emergency at any time of day or night. The officer did what he was paid to do. Blume was driving under the speed limit, 10 or more under is a major clue for being impaired. Swerving within a lane is another problem that each of the 6 things I listed people do.
In his case the officer understood Blume was none of the above, just adjusting/reading his GPS. He would never know unless he stopped Blume. In his case he could have been cited for careless driving (Oregon). If the officer could show other traffic, persons or property was at risk. It does not sound like that was present and no ticket was issued.
Many may not want police to stop drivers for "suspicious driving" but YOU and your families, if you travel on a public roadway are much safer when officers are willing to check drivers doing what he described. Just look up how many innocent people are killed or hurt yearly from drivers that fall into the categories that I listed.
Like I said, I had no problem with it and the officer was very respectful and professional. But then all but one police officer I have met in my 50 years of driving was and so I do have a problem with the current general public's attitude. at least what we see some of. And keep in mind I consider myself one of those that always questions authority and feel we are always just a step or two away from a police state. My only point is when ever I meet a police officer my initial response is going to be respect for the badge.
I do have a question for you kmoore, you said, "Traffic violations are not crimes." I always thought they were... I know most are considered a minor infraction but still I thought when you got a ticket it was because you are breaking a law and I was raised that breaking the law is a crime.
I do have a question for you kmoore, you said, "Traffic violations are not crimes." I always thought they were... I know most are considered a minor infraction but still I thought when you got a ticket it was because you are breaking a law and I was raised that breaking the law is a crime.
Some officers want a driver to pull over immediately. No going past a school or past a ditch on the side of the road or to a lighted area or out of the way of traffic -- an Immediate pull over and stop! Some cops will call for armed backup and approach your vehicle if you don't stop immediately.
