That's the idea Winston???
New Jersey predicament potential
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Illegal fishing trip to find your "Crime"!!!
Pál_K
Guns. I has it.
An RKBA group here pointed out that it is nearly impossible to go anywhere in this town without violating that perimeter somewhere.
Suspicious? In what way?
GunnyGene
Hawkeye
It will do that when you're a target. And make no mistake, every gun owner or even 7 year old potential gun owners, is a target. Some more than others but it's only a matter of degree. Welcome to the Range.
You need to learn more about your rights and how laws work. What exactly does your state say about an officer attempting to pull you over? Each state varies the wording. You read yours, basically it will say you the driver needs to yield and stop ASAP, unless some circumstances prevent that. Is being pulled over a lawful order? basically yes. Deep into reading your laws/rights. An officer cannot create a situation that forces you to break a law and arrest you for it.
In your worried description about having a firearm in a vehicle, being stopped and told to drive onto school property. Even if the officer thinks or believes you have a firearm, you have not committed a crime, you are following the officer's direction.
Now let's change the scene a bit. An officer attempts to stop you on a public street near school property and YOU choose to drive onto the property with a firearm knowing it's illegal. You created yourself the possibility of committing a crime. In my example, would or could you be arrested, yep.
In your worried description about having a firearm in a vehicle, being stopped and told to drive onto school property. Even if the officer thinks or believes you have a firearm, you have not committed a crime, you are following the officer's direction.
Now let's change the scene a bit. An officer attempts to stop you on a public street near school property and YOU choose to drive onto the property with a firearm knowing it's illegal. You created yourself the possibility of committing a crime. In my example, would or could you be arrested, yep.
"Pulled over for suspicious driving"
The officer explained it to me and I totally understood and did not have a problem with it or get an attitude like it seems so many on internet videos do. I was doing 45 to 50 mph on the interstate and swaying from side to side in my lane and the cop had been following me for several miles while I did this. He thought I was stoned. I was actually trying to figure out the my new GPS. When he told me why he had pulled me over and then asked if I had been drinking or was on something my response was, "you got to be kidding, it's 8:30 in the morning!?" He then said you would not believe what goes on out here.... We ending up having a good visit while he kept trying to get an official reply on his check on me through the radio.... talked guns and he even checked out the Ruger P95 I had in the van.
The officer explained it to me and I totally understood and did not have a problem with it or get an attitude like it seems so many on internet videos do. I was doing 45 to 50 mph on the interstate and swaying from side to side in my lane and the cop had been following me for several miles while I did this. He thought I was stoned. I was actually trying to figure out the my new GPS. When he told me why he had pulled me over and then asked if I had been drinking or was on something my response was, "you got to be kidding, it's 8:30 in the morning!?" He then said you would not believe what goes on out here.... We ending up having a good visit while he kept trying to get an official reply on his check on me through the radio.... talked guns and he even checked out the Ruger P95 I had in the van.
"Suspicious driving" may be lame words used for a lawful stop. Traffic violations are not crimes and rules for each are different for stopping and doing an investigation. Violations never need what a crime needs (probable cause) to stop and investigate. Violations only need reasonable suspicion or in Oregon that was redefined as the officer has sufficient grounds to believe a violation may have occurred. That is a really low bar to get over to make a stop.
Without writing a book, what Blume says he was doing met that bar easy. He was driving a vehicle on a public road in a manor consist with serious issues. DUII, DUI, sleepy driver, distracted driver or a driver having a medical emergency at any time of day or night. The officer did what he was paid to do. Blume was driving under the speed limit, 10 or more under is a major clue for being impaired. Swerving within a lane is another problem that each of the 6 things I listed people do.
In his case the officer understood Blume was none of the above, just adjusting/reading his GPS. He would never know unless he stopped Blume. In his case he could have been cited for careless driving (Oregon). If the officer could show other traffic, persons or property was at risk. It does not sound like that was present and no ticket was issued.
Many may not want police to stop drivers for "suspicious driving" but YOU and your families, if you travel on a public roadway are much safer when officers are willing to check drivers doing what he described. Just look up how many innocent people are killed or hurt yearly from drivers that fall into the categories that I listed.
Without writing a book, what Blume says he was doing met that bar easy. He was driving a vehicle on a public road in a manor consist with serious issues. DUII, DUI, sleepy driver, distracted driver or a driver having a medical emergency at any time of day or night. The officer did what he was paid to do. Blume was driving under the speed limit, 10 or more under is a major clue for being impaired. Swerving within a lane is another problem that each of the 6 things I listed people do.
In his case the officer understood Blume was none of the above, just adjusting/reading his GPS. He would never know unless he stopped Blume. In his case he could have been cited for careless driving (Oregon). If the officer could show other traffic, persons or property was at risk. It does not sound like that was present and no ticket was issued.
Many may not want police to stop drivers for "suspicious driving" but YOU and your families, if you travel on a public roadway are much safer when officers are willing to check drivers doing what he described. Just look up how many innocent people are killed or hurt yearly from drivers that fall into the categories that I listed.
Like I said, I had no problem with it and the officer was very respectful and professional. But then all but one police officer I have met in my 50 years of driving was and so I do have a problem with the current general public's attitude. at least what we see some of. And keep in mind I consider myself one of those that always questions authority and feel we are always just a step or two away from a police state. My only point is when ever I meet a police officer my initial response is going to be respect for the badge.
I do have a question for you kmoore, you said, "Traffic violations are not crimes." I always thought they were... I know most are considered a minor infraction but still I thought when you got a ticket it was because you are breaking a law and I was raised that breaking the law is a crime.
I do have a question for you kmoore, you said, "Traffic violations are not crimes." I always thought they were... I know most are considered a minor infraction but still I thought when you got a ticket it was because you are breaking a law and I was raised that breaking the law is a crime.
Some officers want a driver to pull over immediately. No going past a school or past a ditch on the side of the road or to a lighted area or out of the way of traffic -- an Immediate pull over and stop! Some cops will call for armed backup and approach your vehicle if you don't stop immediately.
Never the less, you should put on your turn signal or emergency blinkers, slow down, and drive past the school to the legal (and, therefore, safe) distance. It may cost being yelled at, being threatening, having a pistol drawn on you but you will keep your CCW.
OR draw safe and conservatively around schools.
There are exemptions for traveling through GFZ's. If it is a public road, you have the right to travel it as long as you legally own and legally carry the firearm (cased or ccw). It's serious trouble if you enter school property, which would include parking lots and access roads. I can't seem to find anything about child pick-up or drop off from said public road but, I would bet that's a no no.
If a law is deemed a violation, most traffic laws are. The penalty will only be money. A crime has both money and incarceration that can apply as a penalty.
Violations, offenses, ordinances and crimes are all laws.
So yep, if you get a speeding ticket, say a minor violation you did break the law. Just not a criminal law. It was a violation of a law.
What I was getting at is police don't need what many say "probable cause" to make a traffic stop for a violation. Most traffic laws are only violations.
thanks kmoore.... seems I do learn something new on occasion. I took issue a number of years back with the questionnaire that Front Sight out in Nevada made you answer before attending one of their classes. "Have you ever been convicted of a crime". to me a traffic violation is a crime and so just about everybody would have to write yes on the form... but seems I was wrong. I did write the owner about this but he never replied... at least to that. he did used to send me these 10--12 page emails asking for more money. But that is a different story.....
Most of these laws are confusing.... like the one you can't carry a gun in a post office unless on official business... I can honestly say I've never been in a post office unless I was on official business.
Most of these laws are confusing.... like the one you can't carry a gun in a post office unless on official business... I can honestly say I've never been in a post office unless I was on official business.
It's all about their definition of "official business". Mine and maybe yours is using the PO to send mail, pickup mail, packages or buy their products is official business.
In recent years nut jobs had been using the POs to film customers or want to hang out all day like a homeless shelter. I am guessing those types are banned from bringing firearms into the PO. The largest risk at the PO has been coming from their own employees. Remember "going postal" for a while the term was used for mass killers.
For good or bad one of my relatives was one of the first to go postal... look up Johnston, S.C. He took out all his fellow employees... I'm pretty sure he was from the two 'T'd Paggett side of the family....
GunnyGene
Hawkeye
Precisely. Fortunately some States have figured out legal ways around it.
I suspect there may be some places in the U.S. still like when I grew up. This was in rural S.C. and my recollection was that everyone had a gun in their vehicle. I know now it was not so, but a rifle rack in the back window of your pickup truck was pretty common back then. And my father always had his S&W 38 under the drivers seat.
If I ever get pulled over in my work vehicle and searched, depending on the LEO it will be quite interesting..... most days I have three guns with me. I know even for you guys that is probably a tad over the top.
If I ever get pulled over in my work vehicle and searched, depending on the LEO it will be quite interesting..... most days I have three guns with me. I know even for you guys that is probably a tad over the top.
Depends on the officer. Tone of the law states you are following his or her instructions and you are there per his or her command. Letter of the law states in are in a prohibited area. The officer may go either direction. Everything firearms is like that. If you do have an incident where you rightfully use a firearm, once in a court room all bets are off. How good is your lawyer? How good is the prosecuting lawyer? What are the social and political views of the judge? What are the political and social views of the jury? What is the weather like? Was there a highly publicized shooting recently? What is the current propaganda in your area? Best thing you can do is join something like USCCA ahead of time for insurance and keep on top of the laws concerning firearms. Youtube and other social media platforms are a mistake. Twelve million people with thirteen million opinions and varied motives. Average cost for legal defense is at $100,000.00. You may save your life and become homeless.
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