New Blackhawk/Super Blackchawk variation

[chet15]

So when did Ruger get rid of the collar on the base pins that Ruger assembles to their Blackhawks and Super Blackhawks? Every New Model BKH and S.BKH I saw at the Des Moines gunshow this weekend had the new pins without collars. The blue pins had four cut grooves and the stainless pins had 3 cut grooves.

SA's with no collars on the base pins are as follows (earliest noted sn's):

.357 Blackhawk: 38-18679
.41/.45 Blackhawk: 48-57763
.30 Blackhawk: 51-44885
Super Blackhawk: 88-39615 (87-81559 has a collar)

Makes me wonder...will the base pin start flying out on recoil again? (the reason the collar was put on the base pin to begin with)
Chet15

 

[contender]

Dern,
Now I wish I had looked closer at the ones at SHOT.

 

[keyston44]

I just bought a new Blackhawk in 45 colt with 4.6" barrel with the new base pin. I have been putting some pretty stout loads through it and haven't had any problems with it coming out like on my magnum blackhawks.

Key

 

[ADP3]

Last summer was when I first saw them on the 4 5/8" Super Blackhawks, Blued and Stainless.

Best Regards,
ADP3

 

[bisleyfan41]

They've been that way for awhile...at least a year.
The pins just prior to this change had a different head design than the "old style" as well.

 

[dennie]

chet15, I cannot answer your original question. You got me to thinkin' tho. Wouldn't having a collar on the base pin actually add a little, tho tiny amount, of weight to the pin? Seems to me this extra weight would cause the pin to come out easier with the gun recoiling away from it? I have never heard that about the collar. Just curious, that's all.
Thanks.
dennie

 

[Hondo44]

chet, dennie,

I remember first hearing about the collarless pins about a year ago. I do not see logic to the collar preventing the pin from pulling unless it was on the other side of the frame.

I subscribe to the slight extra weight of the collar adding to the issue of pulling pins. Just like heavy bullets in a a Smith alloy gun are not recommended because they will pull from their cases under recoil.

 

[David Bradshaw]

Perhaps sans collar saves a nickel, as you start with thinner rod.
David Bradshaw

 

[Hondo44]

Bingo, that's most likely the reason. Everything comes down to production costs and time in a competitive market.

 

[dennie]

Thanx guys. It would perhaps be cheaper to buy a smaller diameter shaft that is the correct size, or one that only needs a little finish OD grinding. I nickel here and a nickel there.
dennie

 

[GasGuzzler]

I do not see logic to the collar preventing the pin from pulling unless it was on the other side of the frame.

My opinion too.

 

[chet15]

Ruger put the collar on the base pin beginning with the .44 flattop about early to mid-1958 in the 9xxx range, so there was a reason for doing it in the first place. There is a cuttout on the collar that fits the contour of the barrel to keep the base pin from rotating.
I suppose the main problem with the base pin coming out would have been the capped base pin latch nuts, because when those were overtightened, the tiny threaded end broke off into the cap...lose the latch nut and out your pin comes. But right after the .44 FT got their collared base pin, the latch nuts were also improved to the drilled-thru type.

Serial numbers on the NM's anybody??
chet15

 

[Jimbo357mag]

I think the collar with the notch cut out contributed to getting the base pin stuck half-way inserted. Several times I thought I would never get the thing un-stuck.

 

[gmartinnc]

The 45 Bisley I just got is like that. When you get arthritis in your hands as I have, the absence of the collar makes it harder to get the pin back in. I don't like the new basepin because of that. Hadn't considered the possible advantage to the weight thing. I will try to keep this in mind.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

As I recall, the anti-rotation feature of the collared pin was to keep the notch on the pin into which the pin latch fits properly aligned.

With the collar deleted, are the new pins machined with a circumferential latching groove all aroud the pin so its rotational orientation is inconsequential?

 

[Lee Martin]

It's funny....not that I really ever grasped the collar but these do seem harder to remove. Not tighter, just tougher to grab.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

I've always sorta had troubles with the collared pins because they make it impossible to twist/spin the pin during removal/installation to kinda help the process along. Glad I'm not the only one.

JMHO

 

[hutchman]

SBH 87-96036 does not have a collar and FWIW, this one is a bear to get it reseated when reinstalling the cylinder.

 

[chet15]

SBH 87-96036 does not have a collar and FWIW, this one is a bear to get it reseated when reinstalling the cylinder.

Wow, that was made quite some time ago! OK everybody, I know there have been more NM SA's bought over the last few years by you guys who lurk on here....What do your guns look like? Collar or no collar???
Chet15

 

[GasGuzzler]

Original pin 1978 BN36 collared. Belt Mtn. locking pin collared as well.