I had so much fun last time, did it again. If you are a fair-to-middlin' reloader, and shooter of some yrs., you can do this. In my case, I bought nothing special, though since I have a .54 mtn rifle, some BP stuff is on hand. I used what I had. So..some CCI 350 primers, not getting much use lately,then an open can of FFg Goex. I found one of them little yellow Lee dippers that dumps me an appropriate volume of powder. Last time I used Penn 185gr full wadcutters. This time went with the 240gr SWC, same but with a "nose" added. By this I mean case volume used and bore bearing surface, the same. "The rule of thunb" with BP", no empty space, to a little compression is the way to go. I was not looking for performance or even accuracy, just fun. Yes, FFFg and bullets meant for BP use would be better. I have 2 stainless steel .44spec to play with, and my loading bench is 50ft from my range, clean up is easy. In fact, I've only used WD40. Now if you are going to a shoot/comp., yeah you will needed to the usual and often feared, desperate measures to clean up ! Stay safe and have fun. steve b
More Blackpowder Fun !
- Thread starter steve b
- Start date
Yep, I always keep some .45 Colt cartridges loaded up with Triple Seven. Doesn't matter what cartridge though, .44Spec, .44Mag, .357, .38, etc..... And as you say, it is safe in any revolver cartridge as long as you at least slightly compress it under the bullet.
It is fun sometimes to go out and make some smoke! Only thing is the easy cleanup afterwords, but I use a Murphy soap mix (or hot soapy water depending) to clean at home and then Windex at the range if needed. Note: Make sure you clean your cases too afterward.
It is fun sometimes to go out and make some smoke! Only thing is the easy cleanup afterwords, but I use a Murphy soap mix (or hot soapy water depending) to clean at home and then Windex at the range if needed. Note: Make sure you clean your cases too afterward.
Driftwood Johnson
Blackhawk
What often feared and desperate measures???
I shoot nothing but Black Powder in CAS. 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44-40, 44 Russian, and 12 gauge shotgun. Clean up is no big deal, it is easier than cleaning Smokeless, just messier.
Hammerdown77
Blackhawk
Question for the OP, does the WD40 actually neutralize the black powder salts? If not, how do you not get corrosion if that's all you use?
Driftwood Johnson
Blackhawk
Howdy Again
I can answer that. It is a misconception that the salts in Black Powder fouling are what causes the corrosion. I know a lot of people say that on the internet, but in my experience it simply is not true.
What causes corrosion with real Black Powder (not the BP substitutes) is the fact that BP fouling, which is very, very dry (hygroscopic) sucks moisture out of the air. The combination of moisture mixed into the BP fouling and held in close proximity with the steel of the gun is what causes corrosion. If BP fouling is saturated with oil, it looses its ability to suck any moisture out of the air. Think of it as a sponge which is saturated with water. It cannot absorb any more water.
In the same way, BP fouling that has been saturated with oil looses its ability to absorb any water vapor from the air. The oil soaked BP fouling can sit for long periods in contact with steel and will not cause any corrosion. When I clean my guns after shooting them with Black Powder I make no attempt to clean out all the fouling that has worked its way down inside the mechanism. I simply leave it in there after squirting a good dose of Ballistol down inside. Once a year, or sometimes less, I tear my BP guns apart and completely clean all the black, oily guck out of the insides. There is always plenty of black, oily guck, there is never any rust.
Although I have never cleaned a BP gun with WD-40, I suspect it would behave much the same. The key to cleaning Black Powder fouling out of a gun has nothing to do with pH. Neutralizing is not important. What is important is diluting the fouling and washing it away. Whether one uses water or an oil to dilute and wash away most of the fouling does not make any difference, washing it away is what is important. After that, any fouling that has been left behind looses its ability to cause more rust as long as it has been soaked with oil.
Why, the often feared and desparate measures that keep lots of folks from even trying BP. What I'm trying to overcome by my thread. It doesn't have to be real, and we know its not, but its the perception of many, that BP is a PIA. I love the duller, flat, BOOOOM !, and the smell, of real BP. Stay safe, and have fun. steve b
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steve b said:
You and D J are 100% correct. BP is no big deal to clean. If it is you are doing it wrong. :wink: :wink: :wink: Also the loading is VERY easy load the case to a little past bullet depth smash in bullet and go shoot. Ya sure can't over charge. Yea I have left some air space at times no big deal either.
Not recomendedJim Shooter of the real Gunpowder
FergusonTO35
Hunter
Real black powder has gone the way of the Dodo around here. Sadly I may have to buy an inline if I want to hunt the season.
Hammerdown77
Blackhawk
I got a chance to try out some 45 Colt black powder loads yesterday and I gotta say, I'm HOOKED. Wow, this is the way 45 Colt was meant to be shot 
Load was a full case + compression of FFg Goex (35 grains weighed/measured), under two different bullets. First was a standard 255 LSWC, the ol' bevel base variety from Magnus Bullet Co. I melted the lube out of the grooves and then re-lubed (pan lubed) with a 50/50 mix of beeswax and Crisco. The other bullet was the 270 SAA bullet from a Mihec mold. Same lube.
Recoil and report was "full bodied", for lack of a better description. When the first one lit off, I had everyone's attention. FAWOOOOM. Firm recoil, lots of fire and smoke. Messy. What's not to love?
I dumped all my brass in a jug of soapy water for the ride home when I was finished. The gun looked horrible when I put it on the bench to start cleaning, but after soaking everything down with a mix of Murphy's Soap, alcohol, and peroxide, all the fouling just dissolved right away. Easy. Let it dry (the alcohol speeds that process) and re-lubed.
I'd highly recommend giving it a try for all the reloaders out there who are still hesitant due to fear of clean up, corrosion, etc. It's not bad at all, no worse than smokeless. The only difference is you can't leave the gun uncleaned for weeks and not expect some corrosion like you can with smokeless.
Load was a full case + compression of FFg Goex (35 grains weighed/measured), under two different bullets. First was a standard 255 LSWC, the ol' bevel base variety from Magnus Bullet Co. I melted the lube out of the grooves and then re-lubed (pan lubed) with a 50/50 mix of beeswax and Crisco. The other bullet was the 270 SAA bullet from a Mihec mold. Same lube.
Recoil and report was "full bodied", for lack of a better description. When the first one lit off, I had everyone's attention. FAWOOOOM. Firm recoil, lots of fire and smoke. Messy. What's not to love?
I dumped all my brass in a jug of soapy water for the ride home when I was finished. The gun looked horrible when I put it on the bench to start cleaning, but after soaking everything down with a mix of Murphy's Soap, alcohol, and peroxide, all the fouling just dissolved right away. Easy. Let it dry (the alcohol speeds that process) and re-lubed.
I'd highly recommend giving it a try for all the reloaders out there who are still hesitant due to fear of clean up, corrosion, etc. It's not bad at all, no worse than smokeless. The only difference is you can't leave the gun uncleaned for weeks and not expect some corrosion like you can with smokeless.
Yep. You have to 'commit' to the cleanup when you get home
.One of the things I like about 777 is you can use standard lubed bullets and use your usual powder measure with it.
Sounds like another convert
.I can't find it here either. I even have to go out of town to pick up the substitute 777.
I can agree with you for the cartridge revolver (excluding extra time spent cleaning the cases, oven dry, popping primers out and cleaning the primer pockets every time), but not so for the percussion revolvers. My ROA, and other revolvers, I've had to break it all the way down and clean up each piece, remove and clean all six nipples .... which takes me awhile to complete. Easy? Yes. But time consuming which BTW I really don't mind.... Just the nature of the game. I actually enjoy taking 'em down, cleaning, and reassembling ....
Hammerdown77
Blackhawk
Yes, you are right. The cap and ball revolvers seem to take longer to clean. Especially the cylinder, since you have to remove nipples, and you can't just push a patch through like in a cartridge gun's cylinder.
I'm still looking for some nifty cleaning implement to scrub out the back recesses of the chambers...
I'm still looking for some nifty cleaning implement to scrub out the back recesses of the chambers...
wizofwas
Buckeye
I have some OLD 777 (40 years old?) that still is good. I'll have to load up a few 45 colts and try it some time. Thanks for the idea.
bigboredad
Blackhawk
I am very interested in this but the question on bullet lube has me guessing. How do most apply the bp lube on to the bullets or do they make bullets already lubed. I have a lubrisizer but don't want to change lubes each time I'd like to play cowboy. Also is it true you can use regular smokeless bullet lube with 777
Hammerdown77
Blackhawk
What I did with my bullets is this.
Melt the smokeless lube off your commercial cast bullets first. Put the bullets on a few paper towels on a cookie sheet, and stick them in an oven set to 150-200 degrees. Usually doesn't take too long for the lube to melt out of the grooves, 10 minutes should do it. Leave the oven on, you'll use it again shortly.
Next, I pan lube using my homebrew BP lube. Melt the lube down in a pan (double boiler setup if you can, indirect heat through boiling water). In another pan on a level surface, position the unlubed bullets base down, about 1/4 to 1/2 inch apart. Pour or turkey baster the melted lube into the bullet pan; try not to get lube all over the noses of the bullets. Pour in enough lube to go a little above the lube grooves. Now let that cool for 10-15 minutes. The lube cookie should set up and pull away from the edges of the pan. When it's solid enough to pull out of the pan without breaking it, take out the lube cookie with the bullets, flip it over, and push out the bullets onto a folded up towel. You can also use tweezers/forceps/pliers to gently grab the bullet and twist/pull them out. This might be tricky at first, it does take some trial and error as far as technique and when the lube is at the optimum temp to push the bullets out. If the lube is too hard, it will want to strip out of the lube grooves when you push the bullet out. Or you'll crack the cookie. If it's too soft, you won't be able to keep the lube cookie together either, it will just fold and break.
Now, if you haven't broken the lube cookie into too many pieces, you can put it back in the pan and then stick the next batch of bullets in the holes formerly occupied by the ones you just punched out. Stick that back in the oven (that you left on after melting the smokeless lube out earlier) and wait for the lube to melt down. Add more unmelted lube if you need to to bring the level up above the loove grooves. Carefully take the pan with the bullets and the melted lube out and place on a level surface to cool. Repeat the whole process again to remove the bullets.
Goex sells pre-lubed BP bullets, I believe. They are pricey.
You can use a lubrisizer, but like you said, you need to clean out all of your smokeless lube first. If you just want to make up a small batch of bullets to try out, then pan lubing is the way to go.
Melt the smokeless lube off your commercial cast bullets first. Put the bullets on a few paper towels on a cookie sheet, and stick them in an oven set to 150-200 degrees. Usually doesn't take too long for the lube to melt out of the grooves, 10 minutes should do it. Leave the oven on, you'll use it again shortly.
Next, I pan lube using my homebrew BP lube. Melt the lube down in a pan (double boiler setup if you can, indirect heat through boiling water). In another pan on a level surface, position the unlubed bullets base down, about 1/4 to 1/2 inch apart. Pour or turkey baster the melted lube into the bullet pan; try not to get lube all over the noses of the bullets. Pour in enough lube to go a little above the lube grooves. Now let that cool for 10-15 minutes. The lube cookie should set up and pull away from the edges of the pan. When it's solid enough to pull out of the pan without breaking it, take out the lube cookie with the bullets, flip it over, and push out the bullets onto a folded up towel. You can also use tweezers/forceps/pliers to gently grab the bullet and twist/pull them out. This might be tricky at first, it does take some trial and error as far as technique and when the lube is at the optimum temp to push the bullets out. If the lube is too hard, it will want to strip out of the lube grooves when you push the bullet out. Or you'll crack the cookie. If it's too soft, you won't be able to keep the lube cookie together either, it will just fold and break.
Now, if you haven't broken the lube cookie into too many pieces, you can put it back in the pan and then stick the next batch of bullets in the holes formerly occupied by the ones you just punched out. Stick that back in the oven (that you left on after melting the smokeless lube out earlier) and wait for the lube to melt down. Add more unmelted lube if you need to to bring the level up above the loove grooves. Carefully take the pan with the bullets and the melted lube out and place on a level surface to cool. Repeat the whole process again to remove the bullets.
Goex sells pre-lubed BP bullets, I believe. They are pricey.
You can use a lubrisizer, but like you said, you need to clean out all of your smokeless lube first. If you just want to make up a small batch of bullets to try out, then pan lubing is the way to go.
wizofwas
Buckeye
That is a good question on the BP lube. I was planning on just using LLA for the BP, unless someone says that is a bad idea.
And bbdad, for probably as many bullets that you're going to use for BP you can always pan lube them instead of changing the lube in your lubrisezer.
And bbdad, for probably as many bullets that you're going to use for BP you can always pan lube them instead of changing the lube in your lubrisezer.
Hammerdown77
Blackhawk
wizofwas said:
I wouldn't use Lee Liquid Alox with real black powder. With the subs it may be ok, I don't know.
Yes it is true. That is one of the reasons I like 777.
reference : http://www.curtrich.com/bpsubsdummies.2.html
reference : http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=846409&sid=c307136a09e24ab8a813866cdb8b4677
Jimbo357mag
Hawkeye
This might seem like a funny question. Can you use Triple 7 and jacketed bullets? I might like to try that sometime just to make smoke. I have gotten away from loading lead lately.
.
.
bigboredad
Blackhawk
Hammerdown77
Thanks for the help as much as I want o use the real black I may just give 777 a whirl I've pan lubed a lot and I am not a big fan of pan lubing
Rclark
thanks for the info and links this sounds more fun all the time
Thanks for the help as much as I want o use the real black I may just give 777 a whirl I've pan lubed a lot and I am not a big fan of pan lubing
Rclark
thanks for the info and links this sounds more fun all the time
Hammerdown77
Blackhawk
Yeah, pan lubing ain't the most fun thing in the world. If I decide I'm going to shoot black powder on a regular basis, I'm going to buy a lubrisizer dedicated to black powder bullet lubing.
I managed to pan lube a kitchen towel last night. That was not good...
I've read that if you use Cream of Wheat filler between the powder and the bullet, and aren't trying to achieve high velocities, you can run lead bullets without any lube at all and not have barrel leading. This is of course assuming your bullets are sized properly for your bore.
The CoW filler acts as a firewall of sorts for the hot gas and flame, preventing it from melting the bullet lead as it goes down the bore.
I managed to pan lube a kitchen towel last night. That was not good...
I've read that if you use Cream of Wheat filler between the powder and the bullet, and aren't trying to achieve high velocities, you can run lead bullets without any lube at all and not have barrel leading. This is of course assuming your bullets are sized properly for your bore.
The CoW filler acts as a firewall of sorts for the hot gas and flame, preventing it from melting the bullet lead as it goes down the bore.
Well Guys,
A couple of things.
First off in CAS I use smokeless lubed bullets in the pistols with 3F Goex no problem.
Windex and hot water takes out all the fouling and I don't have a leading problem. Try it and see lot less PITA
Second Triple 7 is still not like real BP in recoil or the sound. Yes I use it in my rifles. Why because you DO need BP lubed bullets in a Rifle. Also with the rifle you don't notice the recoil. So I can use smokeless bullets in everything. Been doing it this way for about 6 years and a few 1000s rounds in 32s and 45s
HOPE you are using a filler :wink: If not ya might think about useing one.
NAAAAAAAAA Windex and Ballistol are your friends and gave up on the recesses Worst part to clean. I shoot this nasty stuff to much for it to be hard to do :lol: :lol:
Jim
A couple of things.
First off in CAS I use smokeless lubed bullets in the pistols with 3F Goex no problem.
Windex and hot water takes out all the fouling and I don't have a leading problem. Try it and see lot less PITA
Second Triple 7 is still not like real BP in recoil or the sound. Yes I use it in my rifles. Why because you DO need BP lubed bullets in a Rifle. Also with the rifle you don't notice the recoil. So I can use smokeless bullets in everything. Been doing it this way for about 6 years and a few 1000s rounds in 32s and 45s
HOPE you are using a filler :wink: If not ya might think about useing one.
NAAAAAAAAA Windex and Ballistol are your friends and gave up on the recesses
Worst part to clean. I shoot this nasty stuff to much for it to be hard to do :lol: :lol: Jim
23g (by weight) of 777.... "HOPE you are using a filler Wink If not ya might think about useing one"
This is a slightly compressed load in .45 Colt. No filler needed. Note by weight ... not volume.
.45 Colt 5 1/2"
Using scale and regular powder measure (by WEIGHT)
22.0g Triple-7 FFFg, 250g RNFP, CCI-300, 885, 16 SD, 67 ES, 29 shots
23.0g Triple-7 FFFg, 250g RNFP, CCI-300, 919, 10 SD, 35 ES, 18 shots
24.0g Triple-7 FFFg, 250g RNFP, CCI-300, 939, 12 SD, 42 ES, 12 shots
Using Lee dipper :
2.2cc Triple-7 FFFg, 250g RNFP, CCI-300, 944, 24 SD, 81 ES, 16 shots
I assume the higher ES is due to the not so precise dipping process. Still not real bad.
Just picked up a bottle of 777 FFg yesterday. So, do some testing with that. Only bottle on the shelf as I was looking for FFFg.
This is a slightly compressed load in .45 Colt. No filler needed. Note by weight ... not volume.
.45 Colt 5 1/2"
Using scale and regular powder measure (by WEIGHT)
22.0g Triple-7 FFFg, 250g RNFP, CCI-300, 885, 16 SD, 67 ES, 29 shots
23.0g Triple-7 FFFg, 250g RNFP, CCI-300, 919, 10 SD, 35 ES, 18 shots
24.0g Triple-7 FFFg, 250g RNFP, CCI-300, 939, 12 SD, 42 ES, 12 shots
Using Lee dipper :
2.2cc Triple-7 FFFg, 250g RNFP, CCI-300, 944, 24 SD, 81 ES, 16 shots
I assume the higher ES is due to the not so precise dipping process. Still not real bad.
Just picked up a bottle of 777 FFg yesterday. So, do some testing with that. Only bottle on the shelf as I was looking for FFFg.
wizofwas
Buckeye
Oops, I made a misteak. I just checked and the powder that I have is Hodgdons FFFg. Not the 777 stuff. And I was checking out their site and it says to use 30 gr. of powder for the 45 colt. I did a rough questament and figure that with that amount of powder it'll almost fill the case and give me some compression when I put the pill in the case. Does this sound about right to ya'll?
FFFg is just the powder granularity. Hodgdons just makes powders.... So what 'type' of FFFg .... Pyrodex or Triple-7 . Anyway any load that is slightly slightly (or more) compressed will work. Just no air space.
http://www.hodgdon.com/pyrodex-granular.html
http://www.hodgdon.com/tripleseven-granular.html
. Anyway any load that is slightly slightly (or more) compressed will work. Just no air space.http://www.hodgdon.com/pyrodex-granular.html
http://www.hodgdon.com/tripleseven-granular.html
wizofwas
Buckeye
It's an old can that say's Black Powder FFFg. Hodgdons says that Pyrodex is the replacement powder for it and it should be the same.
wizofwas
Buckeye
OK, thanks. I just want to make sure of what I'm doing. I really don't want to blow up my 45 as some people are implying that I might. But again, they aren't using BP either.
Here 'references' to the Hodgdon BP I found ... hope this helps a bit :
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-515589.html
http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=4192.0
Their 'history' doesn't mention it....
http://www.hodgdon.com/history.html
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-515589.html
http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=4192.0
Their 'history' doesn't mention it....
http://www.hodgdon.com/history.html
wizofwas
Buckeye
Yep, that's the Hodgdon's can that I have. I also saw 2.50 writen on it, so I'm guessing that I paid $2.50 for it. Wish I'd of bought more of it at the time. But I still have almost a full can of the stuff. (You can tell by that, that I do just a ton of BP shooting. ) I think I bought it in the early 70's but it could have been in the late 60's so I'm hoping it's the good stuff, not the poorer stuff with the cheaper charcoal. And thanks for looking up the history. I wasn't really that interested at the time, just wondering if my thinking was right.
thanks again.
) I think I bought it in the early 70's but it could have been in the late 60's so I'm hoping it's the good stuff, not the poorer stuff with the cheaper charcoal. And thanks for looking up the history. I wasn't really that interested at the time, just wondering if my thinking was right.thanks again.
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