mixed headstamps ?

[Kevin]

I'm prepping some 357 cases to load when I get my bullets from ACME. As I'm going through the cases depriming, flaring the mouth etc, some of them just sort of feel different in the press. Some more pressure is required and others almost no pressure to flare the case mouth. A few are like this, most feel and appear perfectly normal.

So I'm looking at the headstamps, and based on the brand, I can almost tell how it will act. S&B have tight primer pockets, R&P are just a smidge too short (I toss these cases as I come across them.) There are a few, I only have one or two individual pieces of.

But, is there any reason to use or not use cases with mixed headstamps? I know some here are pretty strict about no mixed cases and recording times used etc. I would love to have a system like that, but for the life of me can't figure out how to keep them all seperated.

But does that really matter as well? I will throw out cases when they go bad, so is there any reason to record the number of times used for each case? This is how I end up with mixed case stamps of various brands.

A while back I bought 500 Starline brass in 357. My plan was to recycle all other brass with different stamps. I guess I'm wondering if I should get rid of cases which seem perfectly ok.

This post sort of rambles. I'm just wondering about these issues as I'm reloading this week, the weather being very nice this week.

 

[Clovishound]

For target fodder, I can't imagine it would make much difference. The biggest issue in my mind would be case length. I get some that crimp in a somewhat different area of the canelure. Not enough to make me want to trim my brass. It's just enough to notice when I check for mouth cracks after crimping.

I do notice some cases don't want to back out of the expander die without some oomph. A little lube on the cases takes care of that for me. Actually, I don't have that issue now that I tumble my cases with a little Nu Finish. They come out of the tumber with a little slickness to them.

 

[Kevin]

Thanks! Yes the case length on the R&P cases has been a big problem, especially with 38's. They seem to be short enough the crimp doesn't even hold. I can push the bullet into the case with my thumb. No, I don't shoot those bullets though. But I've culled the R&P cases from my stash.

This batch of 357's are pretty darn clean too. I normally squirt in some liquid turtle wax with crushed walnut shells. Clean cases just seem to run through the press so much easier. It's worth it to make sure they are as clean as possible. For me anyway.


But how about those of you that keep track of cases and how many times they've been loaded and shot? How do you keep them organized?

 

[Jimbo357mag]

In general for most handgun calibers I think there is little reason to sort cases as long as you are not shooting high power rounds and the cases are reasonably prepped including checking or trimming for length at least once. Cases that are loose after flairing or with other irregularities are culled. That said I prefer to do 40 or50 of the same headstamp if possible.

For new cases I always size and trim before loading the first time and I keep these cases separate until they have been loaded about 5 times.

 

[Kevin]

Thanks Jim:

what trimmer do you use? And what happens after 5 times of being loaded? Do they just get mixed in with all the other cases and then tossed when they develop problems?

 

[SweetWilliam]

The differences your feeling in the press is probably from some cases that were loaded hot all the way to cases that were loaded to 38sp presures.
I've never trimmed a handgun case in my life and never really had a problem. Though you might crush an extra long case once in awhile crimping.
And even though I sort head stamps in every caliber (just my personal preference) theirs really no need to with handgun calibers.
And I don't know how much you shoot but 500 starline cases should last quite awhile.

 

[Twoboxer]

As you know, the more consistent your components' specs, performance, and assembly are the more likely each cartridge will perform closely to each other. And the longer the distance the more inconsistencies show up on your paper.

However, in pistol the range is short and the components more likely compromised to begin with. EG, unless you hand-weigh powder you're accepting a ~2%-5% variation in powder charge. So for most folks most times it doesn't matter much.

I'm sure an elite shooter in competition would answer differently

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Thanks Jim:

what trimmer do you use? And what happens after 5 times of being loaded? Do they just get mixed in with all the other cases and then tossed when they develop problems?

I use the Lee system for trimming. Like I said I size and trim when I first get the brass and then trim them again after I have loaded them 5 times. After that I drop them into the used case buckets.

I load a lot of plated bullets and trim length and crimp is important when using them. If there is a big crimp groove it doesn't much matter if a case is a little long but with a plated bullet the crimp might cut into the bullet if the case is too long.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

Kevin, you're gonna get as many differing opinions on this as many other aspects of reloading, and it's likely none will be any better than the next.

So this is my own drill, which works for me! When someone starts buying my components for me and paying me for my time reloading, perhaps I'll change it, but for now, it stays as is: I just like my ammo to be consistent. It doesn't have to be dead nuts accurate for what I do, and even if it were, I flinch and shake enough to undo all the fancy prepwork. "Consistent" to me means as close to the same from one to the next as practical without getting a da(r)ned ulcer over it.

As a result, I do some of the things you'll hear folks say "Oh, I never do that" and it makes me feel better about my ammo. Brand new, and "new to me" brass gets sized and trimmed, just like Jimbo talked about. What that does is to help make my crimping process the same from case to case, so I can set my bullet seater and crimper (separate stages) one time and not have to dink around with readjusting things when I start crushing cases here and there or my bullets aren't seating to the crimp groove and so forth. In a word, simplify.

I also get more consistent results from the shells in that lot--which may be one box, may be many more. The exact same load may not work the same in Brand A as Brand B brass, but all the Brand A works alike, and all the Brand B does the same. This isn't conjecture, it's been tested and "in MY gun" as they like to say, it works.

And then there's just a touch of pride in workmanship involved. When I open the box, and see 50 of the same headstamps looking up at me, there's a tiny feeling of "Hey, that's nice" which doesn't occur with a box of mix and match stuff. And it's even better when someone else looks and says "Hey, those look good!" especially after they've looked at some of the hodge podge stuff we've all seen.

In the end, as someone's already posted about handgun ammo, there's probably more psychological value in doing some of this stuff than actual and measurable "on target" results. But like I said, until someone else starts footing the bills, that's part of what blows my skirt up. So the best advice I can give you is to try separating and matching headstamps in a few boxes, shoot and compare them against some of the same loads you've put in a bowl and mixed up like a tossed salad, then continue doing what works best. For you!

Rick C

 

[wizofwas]

Does it matter if you use cases with mixed head stamps? In my limited experience, no. But that is with 380 target loads shooting from an LCP. Everything else I separate after cleaning.
As far as organization, I save my instant coffee and 40 oz. peanut butter jars and put the empty cases in them, labeled with the shell and head stamp. Since most of my brass is of unknown origin (range brass), I don't worry about how many times it's been fired since I check my brass through out the loading process. The bad brass just gets tossed. I have recently bought some Starline Brass that I am trying to see how many times it's been loaded. We'll see how long that goes.
Trimming pistol brass is up to the loader. As said earlier, some do and some don't. For the casual shooter, I don't see it being necessary. But for more consistency, you might want to do it, especially in mixing head stamps. It's your choice.

 

[Ka6otm]

I use mixed headstamps on all my handgun reloads and also my general rifle hunting loads. I only sort by headstamp on my precision rifle cases.

I trim with a Forster trimmer, but I only trim rifle cases, never handgun cases.

To eliminate the crimping problem with cases of varying length, crimp with a Lee Factory Crimp Die and you won't have any problems.

 

[Johnnu2]

I've been reloading since the early '70s (that's 1970's for the wise guys). As has been pointed out, most of the responses are relative to handgun reloading and not rifle. I don't think that I have ever trimmed handgun brass. When I've gotten cases with the same headstamps, I did try to keep them in the same box of 50 but for the most part, I would have to say that I've used mixed cases that were range 'pick-ups'. I don't seem to have a problem with .38 or .45ACP because I taper crimp them all. Many other calibers just happen to have the same headstamps because I buy 500 from one manufacturer and they last a LONG time. I guess what I'm saying is that most of us have enough to worry about without obsessing over these things; then again, many do enjoy the OCD aspects of reloading. Ans.: Do what makes you feel good in the hobby and stop doing what causes you stress. IMHO, if you can hit what you aim at, you're close enough for me.... ))

 

[contender]

In general, for most shooting, mixed brass isn't a big issue with straightwalled handgun ammo. Yes, if you have a trimmer, and want to eliminate the occasional long round, or want to assure the crimp is the same on each & every one, trim them to length.
Most average shooters will not notice any difference downrange if you use mixed brass & don't trim.

But, one additional thing to consider.
You are using a PCed bullet or a cast bullet. Neck tension does matter a bit more here. Sorting brass by headstamp will assure you have similar results here.

Here is what I suggest.
Sort by headstamp. Keep the new, Starline as a baseline for reference. Load your plinking & fun ammo in everything else. Work up hunting loads & serious long range target loads in the new stuff.
I have brass I've owned & used since the 1970's. No problems. All brands. I stick with mostly USA made stuff, as it seems to be more consistent, and loads ok. S&B brass gets recycled, due to the primer pockets.
But I set up my serious ammo by using uniform, newer brass, carefully prepared. At 100-200 yds, it does make a difference.

 

[Kevin]

Hey thanks All: there is some great reading here.

I do have some organization, i found this deli with pretty sturdy clear quart sized containers. I've got enough of them I could sort the brass by brand. But there are lots of good ideas here, I have started reloading more, and as it becomes easier it's more enjoyable. I know exactly what Rick is talking about with a full box of nice looking ammo, there is a lot of satisfaction in that.

Thanks,


Edited to add: I would hesitate to guess how many combined years of experience in reloading there are in this thread alone, not to mention the entire forum. Many I bet.

 

[gunzo]

I mixed brass for a long time & occasionally would feel sloppy or guilty about it. Then.. a few years ago Charles Petty ran a test in Guns or American Handgunner magazine. He used a 1911 in 45 ACP that was known to be target grade, clamped it in a Ransom Rest & compared groups from mixed, same, old, new, etc. brass. His conclusion....mixed was OK, very little if any difference in accuracy. I rejoiced.

Then.... just in the last few months,(May/June 2016 American Handgunner) John Taffin of the same gun magazines conducted the same basic test, only this time with revolvers. Same headstamp, same lot brass CLEARLY outshot mixed every time.

I sort some of my revolver brass now but actually for another reason. For a time I was using the same bullet for plinking & hunting. A headstamp would tell me immediately if the cartridge held 20 gr of 2400, or 10 of Unique. No magic markers needed.

As they say; your mileage may vary.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Edited to add: I would hesitate to guess how many combined years of experience in reloading there are in this thread alone, not to mention the entire forum. Many I bet.

Hi,

Combined? That could be a few. Just to start it off (we'll let you keep track, Kevin!), I'm barely a beginner in comparison to a lot of folks I know. 50 years so far...

Rick C

 

[mikld]

I've read several articles on shooting mixed headstamp brass and the conclusions were the same; no measurable differences in accuracy. For no other reason than I just wanna (and there are times where I have nothing else to do) I often sort, by headstamp my hand gun brass. I roll crimp or profile crimp my revolver ammo and have never felt any difference in case length made much, if any difference in performance/crimping. I don't even measure the cases of my semi-auto ammo, and they still pass the "Plunk Test".

Now brass for my "baby", my Garand, is sorted buy headstamp and number of times fired. The same with my Ruger 308 bolt gun. For these two I believe there is a difference and it is noticeable (military vs. commercial brass. Some mfgs have slightly different dimensions of their brass). But it's really just personal preference. No safety reasons to sort. No "Reloading Police" is gonna kick down your door and confiscate your sorted or unsorted ammo. I have even fired different brass, in the same clip full in my Garand (please forgive me Master Browning). :mrgreen:

Kevin, my experience? I started loading 38 Specials with my Lee Loader in 1969...

 

[contender]

Gee Rick, I feel young,, I've only been reloading since 1977. So I only have 39 years of reloading experience.

 

[wizofwas]

And I'm just a newbe at reloading. I've only been doing it for about 5 years now.

 

[Ka6otm]

Well so far I guess I'm the senior reloader at 61 years of reloading at this point.

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

I started reloading ( by helping my dad ) in '1955' . Reloading for his Remington
.244 varmint rifle at the kitchen table. We used a Lyman tong tool and a Redding scale that I still have and use.
Note, I still have the factory box that the Redding scale came in. It has a factory printed price on it of $5.00 . It's the old oil dampened type and still as accurate as the day it was made ,as compared with my other new scales.

 

[Kevin]

See, all this experience! There better not be a question that stumps y'all.

I remember helping my dad cast lead bullets for a 30/30 years ago. I don't know what happened but we didn't do it very much. My mom probably told us to stop before we hurt ourselves.

But since then I've been reloading for about 10 years, moreso in the last 4 years since moving to Dallas.

 

[Poco Oso]

Another newbie here . I just started handloading about 12 yrs. ago. I'm also one of the OCD crowd. There's something real relaxing about the process and, as RickC stated, the satisfaction of a job well done.

 

[gunzo]

Very gratifying for me also. Pulled the handle for the first time 43 years ago.

 

[Rodfac]

Contender wrote: and I agree...well said Contender. Rod

In general, for most shooting, mixed brass isn't a big issue with straightwalled handgun ammo. Yes, if you have a trimmer, and want to eliminate the occasional long round, or want to assure the crimp is the same on each & every one, trim them to length.
Most average shooters will not notice any difference downrange if you use mixed brass & don't trim.

But, one additional thing to consider.
You are using a PCed bullet or a cast bullet. Neck tension does matter a bit more here. Sorting brass by headstamp will assure you have similar results here.

Here is what I suggest.
Sort by headstamp. Keep the new, Starline as a baseline for reference. Load your plinking & fun ammo in everything else. Work up hunting loads & serious long range target loads in the new stuff.
I have brass I've owned & used since the 1970's. No problems. All brands. I stick with mostly USA made stuff, as it seems to be more consistent, and loads ok. S&B brass gets recycled, due to the primer pockets.
But I set up my serious ammo by using uniform, newer brass, carefully prepared. At 100-200 yds, it does make a difference.

 

[RandyP]

I'm a 67 year old reloading 'rookie' with only about 7-1/2 years at the hobby.

I think that 99.9% consistency in everything but the ammo we used served me well when I was on an Army pistol team at Ft Bragg. Over the years I have come to accept that I am 100% satisfied and happy always shooting MOD (Minute of Dead). My former 1 raggedy hole 5 shot groups are now more like an 8"-10" circle at most any practical distance.

I reload mid-range plinking ammo and only sort out the Berdan primed brass I find in range pickups. There is a perhaps surprising amount of tolerance in ammo that still functions safely and just fine and dandy. The other factors that affect accuracy IMHO far out-weigh any changes in ammo.

If you ever want to worry less about that 3rd decimal point on the calipers or scale, measure some factory ammo that you'd use without question or concern.

 

[NikA]

Measure some bullets before you put them in the case! I hear the long range guys measure them and put them in lots according to small variations in their shape. I cannot see doing that to load handgun ammunition.