looking for info on GPNY and SPNY

[lfpiii]

"T. A. WORKMAN first noticed the star, nobody knows for sure what the signifigance is but the NYCPD guns all have it. Note that the GF84-NYCPD shipper in the first pic above (which was incorrectly stamped as a Speed Six in the red ink) also has a black ink star in the upper right corner of the end panel."

First let me say I have 3 family members on patrol with the NYPD, this is not second hand info. The star was an inspection mark placed on the gun after it passed inspection by NYPS smith. If you are real lucky and get the original box you should also have a 3x4 inch piece of paper typed with an inspection check off list with inspector signature.

Now dealing with rairity you might be suprised. Until NYPD issued Glock and S&W autos officers had to purchase their guns. When the age of autos arrived new officers got the autos but 6 months later officers that had been grandfathered in were allowed to trade their revolvers for autos. The revolvers were then melted down.

NYPD DAO Rugers are rare because they were purchased only after S&W was not able to complete a large contract in 1985-86 I think. I would have to check. Later Smith had a problem with the DAO model 60 and while Smith replaced them with 640s Ruger saved the day with the SP101.

 

[lfpiii]

If you want to find a rare NYPD Ruger chekc with RM Vivas & Son, LLC http://vivasandson.com/ they have not updated their website since 2008 but he gets rare guns all the time and prices are very good. 2 years ago I purchased a model 10 & 60 that had been issued to the same officer with original boxes all the paperwork and documentation for $500

 

[weaselmeatgravy]

The star was an inspection mark placed on the gun after it passed inspection by NYPS smith.

That is good info, thanks for sharing.

Also good to hear about Ruger saving the day when S&W dropped the ball. We love hearing stuff like that :lol:

Do you think any of your NYPD contacts could find out how many Service-Six and Speed-Six revolvers were purchased back in the day?

 

[lfpiii]

Finding out how many Rugers were purchased by the NYPD is not easy. NYPD armors acted as special gun dealers in NY. If you were an ADA, fire inspector, building inspector or other profession on some kind of list you could go to the armory with a sales approval letter and purchase a gun for personal use.

Long before computers the armory kept track of gun sales in a ledger book and a backup copy on 3x5 index cards. Lets say NYPD received 500 guns 400 might have been sold to officers and 100 sold to other individuals. Also it was not uncommon for the NYPD to accept batch transfers of firearms for other local agencies. Most of the old ledger books have either been lost or shipped to Iron Mountain for storage.

The only was we would ever know the exact number is if Ruger hired a full-time historian. Someone would have to go over all purchase orders and identify which serial number batches went to police sale and which went for others.

FYI the officer price for full size guns was $125 and back ups at $75. The NYPD has a newsletter where retiring officers can place uniforms, guns and other items for sale to fellow officers. Even now NYPD officers can only sell their guns for the original $125 and $75.

If you want a DAO NYPD approved holster DeSantis is still the only authorized manufacture. Collectors should try to find a holster made by Cobra or Flech; the holster will be marked on the back NY-1 followed by 2, 3 or 4.

 

[bigbore45colt]

Very good information, guys. Thank you for sharing.

I now know I shouldn't have passed up these stainless 4" DAOs with the star in the crane! ARGGH.

I have a brand new DeSantis right handed black DAO holster for a 4" GPNY. Interesting to know the above info.

I appreciate you guys taking the time to share this with us.

BB45C

 

[S. Kelly]

I bought as many as I could when I had money, they were one of a kind guns. I have a 4 inch GPNY that I may list here next week.

 

[mtngunr]

I have thorughly enjoyed all the speculation and information....my old beater should be here tomorrow...seeing as how it's mentioned here by SN, can anyone (previous owner or otherwise) tell me anymore about the gun, where it came from, etc? After all has been said and done, it would seem these guns are still going to turn out to be not at all common, given production numbers, the fate of more than a few, etc......heck, I even found out here that my girlfriend's standard Police Service Six .38Spl stainless gun actually probably WAS a police gun instead of that just being some nifty marketing stamp geared towards civilians (as is so often the case).

 

[weaselmeatgravy]

Sometimes the clues to an LE pedigree are subtle and sometimes they club you over the head.

This is my nightstand piece:

No idea on that, if you google WCPD you come up with a few possibilities including a radio station, the World Congress on Preventive Dentistry, or Pediatric Dermatology, or Prevention of Diabetes, Western Committee on Plant Disease, Worst Case Packet Delay, etc. :lol: But also a few police departments including Weatherford College, Walnut Creek, West Chicago, Walnut Cove, Wellesley College, etc.

But my best guess is West Covina (CA) Police Dept.

Or maybe West Columbia (TX) Police Dept.

 

[Blue Brick]

Gee wish mine was a old police gun....

 

[mtngunr]

Mr. Blue Brick, I'd thought to post a pic of my girlfriend's gun, but since yours is an exact duplicate down to the Presentation grips, why bother? And UPS 2nd Day Air ship now looks like 5 Day Air ship with my gun not showing up on time, so I'll have to satisfy Independence Day fireworks urges of the Keith .38Spl load out of her gun....speaking of which I need to get back to reloading if I want anything to go bang tomorrow....

 

[mtngunr]

Just an update of sorts on my gun showing up and contrasting it with my girlfriend's earlier gun....aside from my NYPD gun having the DA-only hammer, being a later gun also is the HB version, as opposed to the tapered barrel on the early gun...also note the cylinder arbor boss is larger diameter on the late gun, something to help with .357 peening?

This post is a round-about thanks again for all the info posted in this thread, as the differences between the guns might have gone completely unnoticed without all the great stuff posted here....things like her earlier gun having the round RH recoil shield, the HB version history (which I also note have a longer solid area on the ejector shroud at the front along with an angled cut instead of about 90degs)...I'll also add the late production NYPD gun has a higher front sight with long top flat, and the rear notch is cut deeper.

Of prime importance to me is how they shoot, ...her early gun with SA capability is almost automatic in that accuracy, while my DA-only gun is a bit of a challenge until I get more time behind the wheel....and what I thought was going to be an overpriced doggy bow-wow in the NYPD gun turned out to be a very nice original finish gun hiding under old grundge, with very little in the way of finish bruising or dings, zero rust or pitting, a solid and tight gun with no functional wear, and I'm super-pleased...

Thanks again for all the great info...I appreciate this gun so very much more than I would have otherwise....

 

[mtngunr]

the return of 162-40766....sorry for the cell phone pic

 

[weaselmeatgravy]

That's pretty good for a cell phone pic!

I have been looking through old notes and find that I have reported four of the GF84-NYCPD guns to RENE but not that one.

The ones I reported were 162-41574 (the first one I bought in Sep, 2005 and have since sold), 162-40985 (from an auction ad in March, 2006), 162-41356 (spotted same day in March, 2006 also an online auction), and 162-41698 (the gun shown in this thread with the box/shipper, purchased May, 2006).

So if your 162-40766 is now listed in RENE (I'm looking at the Pocket Reference from 2007 and it is not in there, but it still states 4 known), then I think the notation should be changed to 5 known.

As for the GS83-NYCPD Speed-Six guns, the two listed in the RENE Pocket Ref are 162-42522 and 162-42614 (the one I showed earlier in this thread) and I also have 162-41996 (purchased Oct, 2008 after the latest RENE update).

I know T.A. Workman has at least one of these models because I remember being outbid by him for it! Terry, is your gun's SN listed above?

The low known of either type being 40766 and the high known being 42614 defines a range of 1848 SN's but Ruger usually made other models within any given SN range. If half of the range were NYCPD models that would be roughly 900 and the collectors have located eight of them so far (less than 1%) which seems reasonable given the fact that the trade-ins were melted down. The chances that the actual low/high numbers are within those 8 known are very slim, so the probability is that the actual range could be expanded to 2000 or 2500 SN's and then using the same 50% as being NYCPD guns would make it 1000-1250.

It could be far fewer but remember that the -Six line was nearly dead at this point after the intro of the GP100. The only -Six series guns still being made in this late stage were the fixed sight models and that practice was solely in support of LE needs. Ruger wanted to abandon the -Six and did so completely after the fixed sight GP100 and the SP101 were introduced. So virtually all production in the 162 prefix was for LE/government contract runs. So the liklihood of a big contract run comprising 50% of the guns within a range at this point in production were a lot better than in previous years.

 

[mtngunr]

This was sold to me by Joe Salter/Down East Antiques, represented as a NYPD gun for police collectors, and set me back $325, compared to the $260 I gave for my girlfriend's standard Police Service Six stainless 4" light barrel....I sorta figured I was giving on the high side for a shooter-grade, but prices have climbed a lot of late with sub-$300 guns being scarce...the info posted initially on the first page of this thread is what pushed me over the top on purchasing this particular gun...it's neat, and I appreciate all the insight....I like guns with stories...

"GF-84NYCPD double action only (with bobbed hammer) Known s/n range 162-40766 to 162-41689. 4 known. Extremely rare. At least one of this variety is known to have been shipped with a shipping sleeve that has a shipping sleeve stamp that incorrectly states "GF-84" and "SPEED-SIX" (known s/n 162-41689). Note that this model also has a star hand stamped on the inside of the crane, possibly by an armorer outside the Ruger factory."

 

[weaselmeatgravy]

OK chet15, it looks like your paragraph should be updated to:

"GF-84NYCPD double action only (with bobbed hammer) Known s/n range 162-40766 to 162-41689. 5 known. Extremely rare. At least one of this variety is known to have been shipped with a shipping sleeve that has a shipping sleeve stamp that incorrectly states "GF-84" and "SPEED-SIX" (known s/n 162-41689). Note that this model also has a star hand stamped on the inside of the crane, this was applied by the NYPD armorer after passing inspection."

 

[chet15]

Thanks WMG. I've also noted a gun as 162-4044x being the same model, so 6 known now.
Chad

 

[weaselmeatgravy]

Ah, see mtngunr? You only got to bask in the glory of owning the lowest known number for a couple of days!

And so the range expands by 300+ numbers.....

And nine of the combined GF/GS NYCPD guns now known

 

[weaselmeatgravy]

And now the total known GS83-NYCPD guns stands at 5 with the inclusion of 162-41996.

Per email from chet15: "I had four of those noted, now five. The ones I had previously were 162-40935, 162-41364, 162-42413 and 162-42614."

So we have now identified 11 NYCPD guns; 6 Service Six and 5 Speed Six models. That puts the known guns in the 1% range of my estimated total of 1000-1250.

 

[mtngunr]

only a little tech info correction on the DOA guns, especially the late ones like mine....the hammer has nothing to do with it, including the statement that the cocking notch was removed on later ones...I tried installing a normal hammer in the gun to see what it would do in SA fire, and just like the de-horned hammer that came in the gun, the fire control mechanism will not allow the hammer to come back far enough to cock....side by side casual observation of both hammers shows no difference in the lower part....

 

[njdet354]

Starting some time in the 70's there were blue 4" service six's which are da/sa with hammer spurs and 2 3/4" speed six's da/sa with hammer spurs. This was prior to 1987 when stainless guns were allowed. The 2 3/4" were back up ,off duty and detective guns for guys who wanted a six shot gun. You had to have a 3" barrel for uniform. Ruger did not make the 3" barrel until the stainless guns. NYPD always had more than one vendor. This was done so if a problem came up with a certin manufacture they always could get guns. At different times different guns were authorized. Smith,Colt,Dan Wesson & Ruger all fixed sight 38cal. only. If you started with one gun you could always carry it ,even if it was taken off the approved list. Some guys bought the Rugers because they were cheaper than the Smith's. Alot of small male cops or female cops had the 3" guns. Or guys who only wanted to buy one gun. This way they used the 3" gun for off duty and on duty.There are still a few wheel guns on the street on duty and off duty. The only change to the gun a cop could do was add a grip adapter or add pachmayr grips.