Loading to the Max and then some.

[Jimbo357mag]

After reading a few threads about loading the 45colt to levels I have never heard of before (40-50K) I thought I would ask how many here regularly load cartridges for certain guns that are way over SAAMI Max. I mean like Ruger Only loads for their Blackhawks and over Ruger Only loads for their Redhawks but also how about heavier loads for their 44mags and 357mags.

I have never loaded over max in my 44 Redhawk but it is reassuring to know that I can.

I bet the GP-100 and the SP-101 could also take over Max loads. I just don't do it.

I sometimes crack the Max level in a couple of my pistol caliber rifles but not much over.

As a side question; anyone shoot a pistol caliber bullet over 2000fps?

 

[mikld]

Not I. I just have a couple different Magnums; 5, .44s and 1, .357 and I have not been able to find a need to load "hot". When I first started reloading for my .44s I tried a few upper/near max/max loads, but for me it was just a waste of powder (max. loads of 2400 and W296 for a S&W 629 and a Ruger SBH.). 240 jacketed, 250 LSWC, and 265 RNFP are my most used bullets today and even if I were to hunt with my handguns, I would have no need for max. charges/loads. Easier on me and easier on my guns...

 

[427mach1]

My 41 mag plinking rounds are mid-range loads; 210 grain plated bullet and 19.3 grains of W296, which produces 1200 fps. I do load near max loads for woods carry duty; 265 grain hard cast lead in front of 21.2 grains of 'Lil Gun, which gives me right at 1400 fps out of my 5-1/2" Redhawk. I shoot a lot of the plinking rounds, not so many of the heavier rounds.

 

[Jim Puke]

I really don't shoot max loads in anything...as yet, I have really found no need as the more user friendly pedestrian loads will do the job.

As for the 2000fps, hottest thing I have is a 454 and I don't go there with it...although some folks do.

 

[gramps]

When I first got my Redhawk .44 mag, I worked up to 22 grs of 2400 under 240 gr JSP. Too much for me! No stress noted in brass or gun. I now keep my .44 mag at 19.5 grs 2400 with 240 gr lswc. Never hot rodded any 357's.
gramps

 

[stevemb]

The only load I have that might qualify is in .357 to be used in a NM stainless steel BH. With no other .357's around here wasn't worried about them going into any other cylinders. It consists of a 180gr XTP seated in the lower cannelure with lots of 2400 powder. Yeah AA9 or H110/WW296 a better choice, but it's what I had. This is a hunting use only load, revolver would never see 500 rds thru my lifetime. Stay safe folks.

 

[DGW1949]

Nope, never.
If ya need a bigger gun, then get a bigger gun...that's my moto.

DGW

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Nope, never.
If ya need a bigger gun, then get a bigger gun...that's my moto.

DGW

Now come on, you have to load the 45colt and 44special a little heavy to make them useful. At least that is what I have been told.

Speaking of those old cartridges they do seem to have taken on new life in modern firearms.

 

[SweetWilliam]

By some of my posts you already know I load hot. But that's not all I shoot. I might say I shot some full power loads over he weekend but I probably shot more low vellocity stuff then anything else. About 2 months ago I had 2 1 gallon buckets full of 45 colt & 44mag loaded up with 5gr. of Titegroup. Now let's just say I have a lot of empty brass waiting to be loaded this winter. I'm probably gonna load them with 7 or 8 grains of unique using 240's & 255's.
But I still like to load & shoot full power stuff.

 

[RalphS]

my normal range load for 357 is 13.5 grains of AA9 under a 158 gr. LSWC hardcast. That is over max according to Accurate load data for a LSWC bullet but under max for an XTP. I get 1250 fps out of a 4 inch GP-100. I shoot this all the time.

I also like to shoot 16.0 grains of H110 under a 180 gr. Missouri Bullet or a 185 gr. Beartooth Bullet. That load might be over max. Hodgdon doesn't publish load data for these rounds but Marshall Stanton does on the Beartooth bullet website. I got about 1300 fps out of the 4 in. GP100 and 1750 fps out of a Marlin.

As for 44Mag, well, I've tested lots of heavy hardcast bullets (300gr. 325gr, 355gr.) with heavy loads of H110 and never had a problem.

The biggest problem right now is that I'm down to my last pound of H110 and can't find any more.

 

[DGW1949]

Nope, never.
If ya need a bigger gun, then get a bigger gun...that's my moto.

DGW

Now come on, you have to load the 45colt and 44special a little heavy to make them useful. At least that is what I have been told.

Speaking of those old cartridges they do seem to have taken on new life in modern firearms.

From what I remember of my somewhat brief love affair with the .44Spl, I'd have to say that you were told right. In it's standard, SAMMI-spec, 146-LRN form, it is perty-dern weak...and really not much (if any) better than a regular ole 158-LRN .38 Spl.
The 45LC though, that's a whole nuther story. That one has allways performed every task that I've put it to quite well, just as it is. In fact, it has worked so well for me over the years that I've become convinced that it is much more powerfull than it's paper-ballistics suggest.

DGW

 

[Jim Puke]

Nope, never.
If ya need a bigger gun, then get a bigger gun...that's my moto.

DGW

Now come on, you have to load the 45colt and 44special a little heavy to make them useful. At least that is what I have been told.

Speaking of those old cartridges they do seem to have taken on new life in modern firearms.

From what I remember of my somewhat brief love affair with the .44Spl, I'd have to say that you were told right. In it's standard, SAMMI-spec, 146-LRN form, it is perty-dern weak...and really not much (if any) better than a regular ole 158-LRN .38 Spl.
The 45LC though, that's a whole nuther story. That one has allways performed every task that I've put it to quite well, just as it is. In fact, it has worked so well for me over the years that I've become convinced that it is much more powerfull than it's paper-ballistics suggest.

DGW

Now, the 45colt is not a powerhouse in it's standard form...not by a long shot. Back in the early '80's when I bought my first colt and did not reload, the factory rounds were mighty anemic...the very reason I sold the colts and bought my first 44mag to hunt with.


Just this week, I was reading on castboolits about a guy having miserable performance on hogs with standard pressure loads...making good hits and it was taking 3 shots to put the hogs down.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

I also like to shoot 16.0 grains of H110 under a 180 gr. Missouri Bullet or a 185 gr. Beartooth Bullet. That load might be over max.

Good grief, ya think? 13.5gr is where Hodgdon stops with a 180 GR. NOS PART.

 

[DeletedMember275]

I routinely load .44 Spl over book max, but I'm using sane loads (the "Skeeter" load) in modern, strong guns. I have tried Linebaugh-level .45 Colt loads, and found them everything Mr. Linebaugh claims them to be - accurate, powerful enough to kill anything I'm ever likely to encounter in the Lower 48, etc. Problem is that they hurt my wrist, and I don't enjoy shooting them. The old cavalry load of 40 grains of FFFg and a 250-ish FRN bullet will supposedly shoot through-and-through a horse. That's all that I need, so I now load my various .45 Colts with equivalent smokeless loads. The older I get (I'm only 59), the less I enjoy wrist-wrecking, fire-belching, flinch-inducing handgun loads. I figure that if I need more power than a factory .44 Magnum load, I'll use either my .35 Whelen or .458 Lott.

 

[DGW1949]

.........

...........Now, the 45colt is not a powerhouse in it's standard form...not by a long shot. Back in the early '80's when I bought my first colt and did not reload, the factory rounds were mighty anemic...the very reason I sold the colts and bought my first 44mag to hunt with.


Just this week, I was reading on castboolits about a guy having miserable performance on hogs with standard pressure loads...making good hits and it was taking 3 shots to put the hogs down.

I hear ya....if I was comparing a SAMMI-spec 45LC to the 44Mag, I'd use the word "anemic" too, and rightfully so. But that aint the point relative to the question at hand.
To be a bit more specific, if I need .44Mag power, I'd use a .44Mag rather than hot-rod my .45's. To me, doing the latter would be about as silly as hot-rodding a 38Spl when I have a perfectly-good .357 revolver tucked away in the safe.
Now, that's not to say that the next guy can't have fun doing whatever he wants with his own equipment, or that there's anything wrong with that. All I'm saying really, is that I've found that I get a more harmonious outcome when I simply let things be what they are.

But that's just me.

DGW

 

[Jim Puke]

.........

...........Now, the 45colt is not a powerhouse in it's standard form...not by a long shot. Back in the early '80's when I bought my first colt and did not reload, the factory rounds were mighty anemic...the very reason I sold the colts and bought my first 44mag to hunt with.


Just this week, I was reading on castboolits about a guy having miserable performance on hogs with standard pressure loads...making good hits and it was taking 3 shots to put the hogs down.

I hear ya....if I was comparing a SAMMI-spec 45LC to the 44Mag, I'd use the word "anemic" too, and rightfully so. But that aint the point relative to the question at hand.
To be a bit more specific, if I need .44Mag power, I'd use a .44Mag rather than hot-rod my .45's. To me, doing the latter would be about as silly as hot-rodding a 38Spl when I have a perfectly-good .357 revolver tucked away in the safe.
Now, that's not to say that the next guy can't have fun doing whatever he wants with his own equipment, or that there's anything wrong with that. All I'm saying really, is that I've found that I get a more harmonious outcome when I simply let things be what they are.

But that's just me.

DGW

This was not about comparing 45colt to 44mag...this was about POOR performance of factory standard pressure 45colt ammo on larger animals.

 

[Rick Courtright]

After reading a few threads about loading the 45colt to levels I have never heard of before (40-50K) I thought I would ask how many here regularly load cartridges for certain guns that are way over SAAMI Max. I mean like Ruger Only loads for their Blackhawks and over Ruger Only loads for their Redhawks but also how about heavier loads for their 44mags and 357mags.

Hi,

"In the last 75 years or so, they've made guns from .17 cal to 16 inch... and there's a right size for each job. If what you have isn't big enough to do the job you need done, get a bigger one. Keep your handloads in the light to medium range, leave the max loads to the factory, and you'll be fine."

That advice came from my first boss at the range when I was 17, a hair over a year into my reloading experience. He was a former Seabee in the South Pacific, who'd seen what the REAL big'uns could do, and later a Winchester pro who'd seen plenty of the results people came up with when they TRIED to make big'uns out of smaller ones and overdid it. He never gave me any bad advice, so I've pretty much followed that piece all along, and it's served well for nearly a half century.

Which means my answer to Jimbo's question is "not me."

And the answer from the many "technicians" at Redneck Labs, Inc., that "It ain't blowed up yet so it's safe, bygawd," doesn't convince me the guys with the white lab coats and millions of dollars worth of test equipment are simply playing CYA with their recommendations. Now, everybody here who knows me also knows I play it well onto the conservative side, so I'm not gonna tell someone they can't "supersize" some of their loads, but just ask that they be careful enough when they do that if something does finally let go, nobody else around them gets hurt. It can get ugly fast when that happens--personal experience speaking!

Rick C

 

[Cholo]

2 calibers I load over SAAMI are the .44 Special in a Ruger and the .32 Mag. in Single Sixes. Both were originally rated for less robust guns. I don't own a .45 Colt or I'd probably go over SAAMI in a Ruger, or its equivalent.

 

[RalphS]

I also like to shoot 16.0 grains of H110 under a 180 gr. Missouri Bullet or a 185 gr. Beartooth Bullet. That load might be over max.

Good grief, ya think? 13.5gr is where Hodgdon stops with a 180 GR. NOS PART.

That load data was published by Marshall Stanton on his website in 2001. I doubt that it was ever tested in a pressure barrel, but it's been there for a while and I imagine that people who buy his bullets also use his load data.

 

[DGW1949]

.........

...........Now, the 45colt is not a powerhouse in it's standard form...not by a long shot. Back in the early '80's when I bought my first colt and did not reload, the factory rounds were mighty anemic...the very reason I sold the colts and bought my first 44mag to hunt with.


Just this week, I was reading on castboolits about a guy having miserable performance on hogs with standard pressure loads...making good hits and it was taking 3 shots to put the hogs down.

I hear ya....if I was comparing a SAMMI-spec 45LC to the 44Mag, I'd use the word "anemic" too, and rightfully so. But that aint the point relative to the question at hand.
To be a bit more specific, if I need .44Mag power, I'd use a .44Mag rather than hot-rod my .45's. To me, doing the latter would be about as silly as hot-rodding a 38Spl when I have a perfectly-good .357 revolver tucked away in the safe.
Now, that's not to say that the next guy can't have fun doing whatever he wants with his own equipment, or that there's anything wrong with that. All I'm saying really, is that I've found that I get a more harmonious outcome when I simply let things be what they are.

But that's just me.

DGW

This was not about comparing 45colt to 44mag...this was about POOR performance of factory standard pressure 45colt ammo on larger animals.

Yeah well, I guess the one's I've kilt musta been too dumb to know that.
Still though, my answer to the question at hand remains the same; If I were to find myself in need a bigger gun, I'd get a bigger gun rather than hot-rod the ones I have.

DGW

 

[Bucks Owin]

I "hot" load my .45 Blackhawk to around 25K using W-296 and mainly shoot 270 to 325 gr cast PB bullets @ around 1200 fps. I have no need for any more "horsepower" and these loads will certainly do anything in the real world that the .43 mag can do IMHO... 8)

Both are fine rounds that I enjoy equally...

 

[Rclark]

My woods load is a tier 2 load, the 13g of HS-6 under 255g SWC (1100fps) which is all I think I'll ever need. Safe in all my Ruger .45s and I really don't think I am 'hot rodding' anything. But normally (my goto load) I like to shoot Green Dot under a 250g RNFP which is around a 900fps load. Much more pleasent to shoot for general shooting and still will handle most animals out there including the two legged soft skinned animal if necessary.

Problem is that they hurt my wrist, and I don't enjoy shooting them.

Yep... When there is no reason .... make the loads 'fun' to shoot. No need for elbow and wrist problems.

Answering the question, never loaded to 'then some'. Ruger Only Loads (Tier 3) is rated up to 30K, and Linebaugh did tests that blew the cylinder at 60K, so ~30K is the most I'd attempt (if I somehow got the stupid urge to go Cape Buffalo hunting... ). 40-50K I'll leave to other revolvers that handle cartridges like the .454 which was 'designed' for the high pressures.

I routinely load .44 Spl over book max, but I'm using sane loads (the "Skeeter" load) in modern, strong guns.

I too shoot the Skeeter load pretty much exclusively in my .44Specials (except the little Bulldog). I don't consider it 'over max' as it has been in the older manuals as a standard load, and used by many many many others from the 1950s going forward without a problem. Now the Keith load is pushing MAX a bit, but I occasionally will load this up for my medium frame BHs.

 

[stevemb]

Yup, praise the Lord, and pass the Unique. Do be careful with the little Bulldog though.

 

[Iron Mike Golf]

357 Mag , 145 gr cast plain base RN HP, Rossi Model 92. 2050 FPS. Don't recall the load. While working up, I miked the cases, checking case head expansion in .1 gr increments.

 

[Paul B]

When I first started reloading ammo, it was for an S&W 38/44 Outdoorsman, a heavy "N" frame revolver chambered to the .38 Spl. on a 44 frame. I loaded it up to a solid 1150-1200 FPS with a 158 gr. gas checked cast lead bullet. Potent as hell very accurate and killed a Black Bear with the gun. Took two shots. Several years late got an S&W M28 pre-model number 4" .357 Mag. and loaded to the then considered OK max of 15-5 gr. of Hercules #2400. Very powerful, very loud and kicked like hell. Current max for the .357 Mag. using Alliant's version of #2400 is 20.0 gr. I also note that ammo factories also downloaded ammo for the .357 Mag. and .44 mag. in their ammo. Was it unsafe during all those years that it was properly loaded? No. But it did tear up the lighter .359 mags like the S&W M19 and M166. People were told to shoot .38 Spl. in the guns and save the full power mag ammo for serious shooting. The .44 was downloaded because full power factory or Elmer Keith level hand loads were damaging the "N" frame guns, shooting them loose. After all, the "N' frame is a circa 1905 design. My 629 went back to S&W twice after running about 200 to 250 rounds of EK's load through it. It's in semi-retirement and the big loads are run through Blackhawks and Redhawks these days. In the .44 Spl. I run Skeeter's load, 7.5 gr. of Unique and the Lyman #429241 bullet.
For hot .45LC loads I run them through a Ruger Super B Bisley 5.5"and use John Linebaugh's data. THat version of the Bisley was recommended by Ross Seyfried for those who wanted a potent firearm but could not afford one of the every expensive 5 shot customs. Works for me.
Paul B.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

For hot .45LC loads I run them through a Ruger Super B Bisley 5.5"and use John Linebaugh's data. THat version of the Bisley was recommended by Ross Seyfried for those who wanted a potent firearm but could not afford one of the every expensive 5 shot customs. Works for me.
Paul B.

How does this differ from the 7.5" 45colt Bisley available today? Is that the Accusport Stainless Steel version?

 

[Paul B]

The 5.5" barrel is more for convenience of carry without radical loss of power. At least that's the way I undrstood the article. No reason why one couldn't use a 7.5" or 4 5/8" for that matter. Whatever turns you on.
Paul B.

 

[Bucks Owin]

The Bisley gripframe is thought by some (including Linebaugh) to be more comfortable to shoot under heavy recoil. It is no stronger than the plowhandle .45 and neither one are up to the pressure rigors of his 5 shot cylinder...(which is hot on the heels of the .454 Casull btw)... :wink:

 

[Paul B]

I can only answer regarding the comfort of the Blackhawk vs Bisley grip based on my ownexperience useing two 7.5" .44 magnums. For my hand I feel the Bisley allows me to handle the recoil better, especially for a quick repeat shot. As I grow older thouf, stiff recoil and artritis in my hands and wrist make shooting them with full power load to be not as much fun as it was in the past. The one that really hurts to shoot full power .44's is the 4 5/8" Super B with a standard Blackhawk grip. I think I'll make up a load with Elmer's bullet that runs closer to 1000 FPS rather than continue with the full power romper-stompers. Those flat out rap the hell out of my finger.
Maybe converting it to a Bisley frame might help I dunno.
Paul B.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Maybe converting it to a Bisley frame might help I dunno.

Hi,

Paul, do you have large hands or more "regular" sized? I ask because a couple of guys with reasonably large hands have shot my .357 Bisley and found it "uncomfortable." Personally, I'd venture a guess it's not the grip shape as such: it's just the factory grips are too slim for larger hands. My BIL and I both have .357 Bisleys, and about the same sized hands: a medium leather work glove is just a bit too tight, a large just a hair loose. He also has a standard BH in .357 (all three guns have 7 1/2" bbls.) We both prefer the Bisley grip to the "plow handle" of the standard BH. I dunno about him, but I've never shot a larger caliber in the Bisley configuration, so color me curious!

Rick C