Light Primer Strikes

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bolo1000_0

Bearcat
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
7
I bought a used New Model Blackhawk .357 SS. When I shot it the first time, it did not fire. Each time I re-loaded it, usually 1 out of 6 would not fire. The primers on the mis-fires were noticably not dented as much as the ones that did fire. This did not happen on the same cylinder bore each time. I was using factory loaded .38 Special ammo. I thought about replacing the Spring (under the grip). If so, is this an easy thing for a person to do himself? Or should a Gunsmith do the work?

Is there any requirement to remove pins etc...?

Has anyone had a similar problem?

Thanks in advance.

Terry
 
Joined
Dec 11, 2002
Messages
9,082
Location
Ohio , U.S.A.
the "hit" (divot) in a 'spent primer' is always deeper than one that did NOT fire, this is doe to the case backing uout under pressure against the pin and recoil shield, as its supposed to do...........
light hits can be a few different things, dirty chambers, broken/worn firing pin nose (tip), hard primers ,usually occurs in 'reloads', yes, it can even be the ammo itself and the mainspring , worn, cut, replaced ( wrong one?)......... lastly the headspace may be 'off' (wrong, too far forward) Yes, there is another one but unlikely, the hammer is NOT "square" to the frame slot ,canted off to one side or the other and dragging as it falls forward,look for drag marks on the sides of the hammer, they gotta be bad ones..........start with the easiest and cheapest first..............clean the chamber (and really GOOD) change ammo, then the rest................
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2003
Messages
1,483
Location
So. Ca.
Terry, welcome to the forum. Go to www.ruger.com open customer service window. You can download a manual. Better yet call them. They will ask your guns serial # and tell them you need a manual and order a factory mainspring.
I've had this problem and its always been the aftermarket light mainspring or a dirty gun. Cas www.cylindersmith.com shows ways to change springs (gun notes. bottom left on main page)
Dan is a retired smith,full time grandpa, :) and a big,big help to all here.
If you shoot 38's be sure to clean cyl. before shooting 357.
Eric
 

flatgate

Hawkeye
Joined
Jun 18, 2001
Messages
6,784
Location
Star Valley, WY
There could be one other cause: short firing pin protrusion.

I've seen where a mismatched set of parts resulted in the hammer nose stopping on the cylinder frame w/o pushing the transfer bar into the firing pin far enough to produce reliable ignition.

I'm sure this is a very, very rare occurrence and the solutions posted above will be the answer.....

flatgate

PS I'm NO FAN of reduced power mainsprings in MY RUGER SINGLE ACTIONS.
 

bolo1000_0

Bearcat
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
7
Since posting earlier I have done more investigation: Let me first say that I bought the N.M. Blackhawk used with no info on the history of the gun. The revolver is in near perfect condition. It has (to me) an unusually light trigger pull, I think it is too light. Last night I turned the gun sideways, held it up to the light, and squeezed the trigger lightly until the hammer fell. If I squeezed it lightly (just like I was shooting it) the firing pin would only protrude a little bit. If I continued to squeeze the trigger the maximum ammount, I could see the firing pin protrude through farther. It seems that the trigger is releasing prematurely, and the transfer bar is not moving fully into position in time. I compared it to my Vaquero (not new Vaquero) in cocked position the transfer bar is higher on the Vaquero (noticibly). I don't know what to do, I already had a gunsmith replace the firing pin, thinking it was that. I paid $375 for the Blackhawk, I have $60 in the firing pin job......Now at least another $100 to tear it down again. I have some pictures that I will try and post. The other thing is: I don't have faith in the gunsmith I used before. He did a good job, but he blindly put in the firing pin without finding the real problem. I need a good Gunsmith for Ruger S.A. near the Charlotte, NC area. Sorry for the long post, and thanks in advance for the advice.

Terry
 

JWhitmore44

Blackhawk
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
987
Location
NW Kansas
I'd put a new trigger and hammer spring in and see what you had after that. They are easy enough to do if you understand the dis-assembly and assembly of the gun. I think you can get the manual online that has instructions. The biggest issue is getting that hammer or main spring off and on the hammer bar. Wear safety glasses if you do this as the spring can launch the seat :) I would think any gunsmith could put the springs in as you wait for a fairly small fee. Assuming they are willing to do so.
 
Joined
Dec 11, 2002
Messages
9,082
Location
Ohio , U.S.A.
well as to "wrong parts" or an improper install. those are horses of a different color.............altering the lock work shouldn't have to be considered..yes, if maybe this was the issue from the onset ( factory defecive) and the reason "WHY" the owner sold the gun ,then needs to be addressd......but as you say, if you "feel" its too light, most likely it is, and as said by Flatgate, I too use ONLY stock, factory parts.....
now you paid a smith to make a repair and it still "misfires" ,he should stand behind his work....you send it off to another and the "pot will continue to grow...." I'd contact him, and give him a chance to make it right, tell him it feels "too light"....we have no clue how he came up with the pin needed replacement, we didn't "see it"...did he give you back the "old pin"??? hope so,or he pulled a short dip stick trick on you........
Some guns are funny when one tries to "look-see" just where and how much, the pin actually protrudes, and we just push on the rear of the pin, ,look at the protrusion, how much is out, when pushed all the way forward, these pins are mounted in the frame , with a small spring, and impact drives them further out, than just holding the hammer "down" ( it rebounds...) if this "play" ( difference in protrusion) wasn't there, you'd have the pin "hanging up" on case rims or high primers, etc.....
wish you were nearby here, it would be done already.....................
But its easy for ANY of us to "second guess" anothers work, with out seeing it in the first place, would'nt be the first Dr to remove a perfectly good organ. :roll:

my bet, change the mainspring..................
 

bolo1000_0

Bearcat
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
7
Thanks, I will buy a new trigger spring and main spring from Ruger.

I have a manuel. How far does the gun need to be dis-assembled to perform this work? Do I need to remove the main frame pins? Or is it as simple as removing the grips......I saw an article on how to put the spring on with a fork, but how does the strut come out? I am trying to determine if this is something I can do myself.

By the way, Thanks for all of your advice.

Terry
 

Jayhawkhuntclub

Buckeye
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
1,241
Location
Kansas
A new trigger spring won't help with light strikes. Only buy one if you want a heavier trigger. All you need is a new hammer spring. See my post on the Revolvers board.
 

JWhitmore44

Blackhawk
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
987
Location
NW Kansas
Should be able to get to the springs buy removing the grips. Then pull the hammer back and slip like a small finish nail in the whole in the main spring bar just below the spring seat. Release the trigger and bring the hammer forward and slide the spring and bar out on one side or the other. You will need the for to compress the main spring to get the seat off and get a new spring installed.

The only thing I was thinking about the trigger spring is, if it is too weak, it may be causing you not to pull the trigger back as far as you should. The spring is cheap enough to get as a "just in case". Should be bale to change the trigger spring with the main spring out. If not it's easy enough to remove the grip frame.
 

Jayhawkhuntclub

Buckeye
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
1,241
Location
Kansas
At one time Ruger had a dissasembly/reassembly video on line. I couldn't find it just now, but you might search. It's got to be out there somewhere.

BTW, if you are going to take your gun apart and put in new springs, I'd recommend buying a few grip frame screws and a ejector rod housing screw. No you probably don't need these, but it's great to have them on hand. Assuming you order direct from Ruger (which I recommend).
 

WANT A LCR 22LR

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
89
rugerguy":3qierxgc said:
now you paid a smith to make a repair and it still "misfires" ,he should stand behind his work.....

It depends, If the gun owner told the smith to "change the firing pin", the smith did his job ( the customer is always right ).

If the gun owner told the smith " this miss fires sometimes , fix it " the smith should see the gun again to fix the situation.
 

flatgate

Hawkeye
Joined
Jun 18, 2001
Messages
6,784
Location
Star Valley, WY
Many Silhouette shooters have experienced this malady.

Reducing the creep in the New Model Ruger's lockwork reduces the upward travel of the transfer bar. As noted in one of the above posts, the transfer bar just isn't "thick" enough to push the firing pin far enough to get good primer ignition.

I've dug through my parts and come up with the longest transfer bar I had and that has fixed the situation. My Silhouette shooter buddy had the transfer bar lengthened via welding but then they became brittle and would occasionally fail.

Another possible solution, i.e. I've not tried it, would be to adjust the geometry of the hammer face so it increases the firing pin travel, however this can open up a can of worms with other timing considerations.

Me? I'd find a friendly parts seller and have them sort through their NM Blackhawk transfer bars and ship out the longest one they have .......

Just My Humble Opinion,

flatgate

PS Light mainsprings have NEVER been in any of my NM shooters. I lighten the trigger spring with the tried and true "bending" technique.
 

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