Leviathan

[GunnyGene]

Given the persistent local and global conflicts raging in the world today, from calls for race war to deteriorating international relations and wars, terrorism and so on, I thought this might be of interest for discussion. I've read this book more than once, but still go back to it from time to time since it is a difficult read and takes some study to understand.

Back in 1651 a very intelligent philosopher ( Thomas Hobbes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Hobbes ) published a book - Leviathan ( https://archive.org/details/ost-history-leviathan ) - in which he discussed human society and what is commonly known as "Bellum omnium contra omnes" - the war of every man against every man. His writings are still very much a topic of political philosophy.

Is this where we are headed, or where we already are ?

There is far more to it than just the short excerpt below.

" There Is Alwayes Warre Of Every One Against Every One Hereby it is manifest, that
during the time men live without a common Power to keep them all in awe, they are in that
condition which is called Warre; and such a warre, as is of every man, against every man.
For WARRE, consisteth not in Battell onely, or the act of fighting; but in a tract of time,
wherein the Will to contend by Battell is sufficiently known: and therefore the notion of
Time, is to be considered in the nature of Warre; as it is in the nature of Weather. For as
the nature of Foule weather, lyeth not in a showre or two of rain; but in an inclination
thereto of many dayes together: So the nature of War, consisteth not in actuall fighting; but
in the known disposition thereto, during all the time there is no assurance to the contrary.
All other time is PEACE. "

 

[Jeepnik]

So he predicted anarchy. Not much of a stretch even in 1651. Society has broken down many times in different areas. The only difference is that since we are so much more mobile and our communication much more rapid it would be on a larger scale.

 

[mohavesam]

The antithesis of Anarchy: Lines for soylent green.

I prefer to think we're somewhere in the middle.

 

[GunnyGene]

So he predicted anarchy. Not much of a stretch even in 1651. Society has broken down many times in different areas. The only difference is that since we are so much more mobile and our communication much more rapid it would be on a larger scale.

Actually, in my understanding, he wasn't predicting anything. He was (again my opinion) stating his observations of the human condition & society and basing those observations on the known history of the time. As I said, the book should be read in it's entirety to truly understand it, not just picked from. Context is important.

I do agree with your comment regarding mobility, scale, and communication tho.

 

[toysoldier]

... that
during the time men live without a common Power to keep them all in awe, they are in that
condition which is called Warre; and such a warre, as is of every man, against every man.. "

Sounds like Yugoslavia after Tito, Iraq after Saddam Hussein, and Libya after Qaddaffy.

 

[GunnyGene]

... that
during the time men live without a common Power to keep them all in awe, they are in that
condition which is called Warre; and such a warre, as is of every man, against every man.. "

Sounds like Yugoslavia after Tito, Iraq after Saddam Hussein, and Libya after Qaddaffy.

Or the American civil war, or any nearly other period of time in the history of our species. What he is referring to in this passage is "the state of nature", as it applies to humanity. That is often equated to so-called anarchy, but really goes much deeper.

You can see some of the influence of his thinking in the Preamble to the Declaration of Independence.

 

[pete44ru]

he discussed human society and what is commonly known as "Bellum omnium contra omnes" - the war of every man against every man.

Is this where we are headed, or where we already are ?

We're well on the way - just observe how fast multitudes of folks "pile on" someone or something "outed" on social or news media.


.

 

[ronto]

All of the borders of current countries were established by war. Humans are a warlike, territorial species with an insatiable self-centered desire for power and dominance which was is as true now as it was at the dawn of human existence. Peace is a pipe dream in direct opposition to our true nature.
With the technological ability now available for mass destruction of the planet itself, it's just a matter of time before it will be utilized by an insane group of humans...nothing like being an optimist but history does not support that position...Have a nice day, it may be your last.