Leading Question..

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Single-Sixer
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:?:

do you get more leading when the round is faster or slower ?
 

contender

Ruger Guru
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the fatman is correct.
If you try & push soft lead bullets too fast, they will lead things. And bullets that are too hard,,pushed slow will lead.
 

Bucks Owin

Hunter
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IMO the "fit" is more important than hardness in most cases. Undersize, no matter what the alloy, will lead! Too soft an alloy pushed too fast ("velocity leading") is easily identified in the bore, and isn't too common I'd say, at least at handgun speeds. And I'm not inclined towards any "voodoo" when it comes to lube either. Just so long as it has some moly in it... :wink: JMO...(BTW, fast powders/high pressure don't help a leading problem either....)
 

hornady

Bearcat
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As said above If your bullet doesn’t fit the bore. You will get leading. And by that I mean the bullet should be at least .001 over bore Diameter. Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton were two of what I call the fathers of modern bullet casting. Hard cast to them was a Bullet with a BHN of 10. Pretty soft by today’s standards. But they pushed these bullets 1200 fps and above. There are other factors in leading but if you are shooting an under size bullet. You will get leading. I have cast bullets for 40 years But along with other books on casting I also have a copy of the Lyman cast bullet manual. Anyone thinking about casting or shooting cast bullets should have a copy.
 

FrontSite

Single-Sixer
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The Fatman is right on .. assuming bullet fit to cyl throat/barrel is correct.

FrontSite
 

revhigh

Hawkeye
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hornady":2i5vezyj said:
Hard cast to them was a Bullet with a BHN of 10. Pretty soft by today’s standards. But they pushed these bullets 1200 fps and above.

A BHN 10 bullet, no matter the size, will virtually MELT in the barrel at 1200 fps, I'd bet. You could almost cut that bullet in half with your fingernail. I sure wouldn't do it .... cleaning leaded barrels really stinks.

REV
 

Three44s

Single-Sixer
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FatMan's statement covers the majority of the issues the average caster/handloader runs into.

But fitament and bore condition and lube quality cover a bunch of "ground" as well.


If you are having issues ..... we are here!


Three 44s
 

hornady

Bearcat
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revhigh

Said
A BHN 10 bullet, no matter the size, will virtually MELT in the barrel at 1200 fps, I'd bet. You could almost cut that bullet in half with your fingernail. I sure wouldn't do it .... cleaning leaded barrels really stinks.

Well Lets see. According to the Lyman cast bullet book. Pure lead has a BHN of 5 and wheel weights have a BHN of 9. And as far as lead melting in the barrel. only if you hold a torch to it. There is a term known as gas cutting. But not melting. Gas cutting is caused by . Under sized bullets. Soft bullets pushed to fast And a soft Bevel base bullet. Some believe all there problems can be solved with a harder bullet. Fact is, If your bullet is not of the proper size it will not work. While on the subject. How much leading do you get in a 22LR. I can see no reason Elmer Keith or Skeeter Skelton would have lied about the test they performed with the 44 bullets.
Or for that matter to be publishes as fact many times.
 

revhigh

Hawkeye
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hornady":1sszk49k said:
Soft bullets pushed to fast .

Right ... BHN 10 is a soft bullet .... and 1200 FPS is too fast for it .... I'd guess this would badly lead the barrel, no matter the size.

By the way, I didn't 'literally' mean 'melt' ... I meant 'lead', used as a verb

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hornady

Bearcat
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A wheel weight by no means is soft lead. I was not promoting shooting soft lead at high speed. The results that I refereed too. Have been well documented. But like many aspects of reloading. It is to what extent you want to take it. As said above. If you want to devote the time to cast a bullet of proper Diameter. Lead alloy mix and lube. And load with proper Powder and correct OAL . A BHN of 10 at 1200 FPS is not impossible. Most casters today. Do not strive for these results . Just as there are several alloys that make a bullet harder. Antimony, Tin, and arsenic. With Antimony. Being the major factor. Tin plays a factor. To a lesser degree.. Most over look the fact that tin. Is instrumental in the fluxing. In that with out tin. You would not be able to remove the dross. Or impurities. This make a harder bullet. Proper bullet diameter is the most critical. 90% of all leading can be attributed to Improper fit. That would leave only 10% to all other factors. A poor bullet. Be it under sized. Pour alloy for FPS too fast or too slow or bad lube. Will cause Leading and poor results. Also can you explain why a cast bullet of Lyman #2 with a BHN of 15 . In a 160 grain 3006 bullet can safely be pushed at 2700 FPS. This is a listed load in the Lyman cast bullet book.
 

revhigh

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No, Hornady, I can't explain that one specific instance regarding the 30-06. All I know is what I;ve experienced myself.

If you want to try experimenting with all the different variables to run a BHN 10 bullet at 1200 FPS with no leading, go for it. I don't have any interest in doing that. I reload to get cheap ammo that performs with better than factory accuracy. I don't feel a need to nibble around the fringes for no reason other than to prove it can be done.

I don't cast, either. I've thought about it many times, but when I can buy perfectly performing 200 grain LSWC's for 45ACP for $60/1000, why buy all the equipment and go through all the hassles and experimentation ?

I can easily scratch a wheel weight with my fingernail ... in my view ... that's soft lead.

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hornady

Bearcat
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Well if you would have read my first post, And understood it. I was not promoting shooting soft bullets fast. The point was that. The number 1 cause of Leading is from. Improper Bullet Diameter .And the BHN of 10 At 1200 FPS. Was an example of what can be done. If you have all variables correct. And yes I do cast bullets. I do not pretend to be an expert. After all I have Only been casting Bullets for 40 Years. Two points you stated One. You shoot commercial bullets. Which may work fine in you weapon. How ever this is not the case in all firearms. A barrel must be slugged to determine the right bullet for that Barrel. The second statement was about scratching a wheel weight with your thumb nail . If you would have said a stick on weight. I may have agreed. But not a clip on. An old test guys used to test lead for a Muzzle loader bullets was to scratch the lead with a thumb nail. If they could, It was soft enough for the Muzzle loader. About 10 years ago. I drilled a Wheel weight Lee REAL Bullet out of a Guys TC. He too thought it was soft enough. Luckily it only made it a third of the way in before it stuck solid . I cast Bullets on A regular Bases. And have not to this day found a clip on WW that could be scratched with a thumb nail.
 

revhigh

Hawkeye
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hornady":2ufoyh34 said:
And have not to this day found a clip on WW that could be scratched with a thumb nail.

Well, all I can say is that we must have drastically different wheel weights where I live because I have never seen a clip on wheel weight that COULDN'T be scratched with a thumbnail.

I think this horse is about dead .... :D

Take it easy Hornady ... by the way I have one of your presses ... a 20 year old Pro-jector ... awesome product you make LOL.

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hornady

Bearcat
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Well we can agree we dis-agree . I’m a little west of you . 30 miles east of Pittsburgh. I worked in Reading for a few years. And the Hornady comes from The LNL progressive press I picked up a couple years back. But I still have My Pacific C single stage, I started out on in 72, But Hornady bought them out so its all the same now. I still load most of my Rifle Ammo on it. Its been a good old press.
 
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