Lead Bullets in 357 Mag

[hammeredbean]

Howdy folks. I have a few questions. I don't have my press yet, but will have it in a month or two. First, I want to use a Penn Bullet Co 180 gr bullets and maybe some 158 gr bullets. I was hoping to get 1200 fps out of the 180 grain bullet. Is this reasonable? Will it lead the barrel? Do I need to use gas check bullets? I really don't want to. I was thinking I might get a lb of 2400 and a lb of Power Pistol. (I have a 44 spcl that is supposed to like both of those powders). What about Lil' Gun?? I have heard lots of good things about loads with Lil' Gun.

These are intended for a 3" sp101 for now...and sometime in the future a 4" GP100. I carry the sp101...but right now I keep Federal 158 gr JSP's in it. This is my primary gun....period, I carry it every day and also carry it hunting, biking, using the tractor etc.... It filled my freezer with deer meat just using those federal bullets but I want to get the most out of it that I can tolerate and enjoy.

If anyone has any favorite pet loads, I am eager to know about them as well. I just don't particularly care much for the 38 spcl level .... I like to keep magnums in the magnum. And yes, it WAS LEGAL for me to shoot those deer with the 3" SP101....I verified this before deer season. Thanks!!

 

[Lefty SRH]

It may be a challenge getting 1200fps from a 3" gun with 2400. I've had very little luck with 2400 powder in any of my guns.
I have not used the Penn 180gr bullet but I have done it with Cast Performance's 187gr WFN GC LBT.
BUT, I think you may suceed if you use H110 and a mag primer with that 180gr bullet. Carefully develop the load for your gun. Can't say if it will lead your gun or not, there are too many unknown factors that come into play. Need to know throat size, barrel groove diameter, bullet hardness, etc....
Good luck and keep us posted

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Instead of loading for velocity I would recommend loading for the bullet and the gun and then see what your velocity is. Example: A hard cast lead bullet can be pushed pretty hard, a soft lead bullet should only be pushed moderately hard. Use only published data that you trust and work up. The bullet will let you know how fast by the leading. The gun will let you know what it likes by the group size.

If you are just starting to load I would recommend popular components and practice making good ammo first before going for special type ammo. There is a good chance that an SP with a 3" barrel won't like 180gr bullets. :shock: :shock:

 

[hammeredbean]

Those are some good points. I do have the luxury of having a brother who has been reloading for 30 yrs to keep my nose clean. I am hoping it likes 180's but am suspicious I might run into poi problems due to the fixed sights. Good advice guys. I appreciate it.

 

[pps]

Your point of aim with the 180 grain will be higher than with 158 grain rounds. If you want the lbt style, they are a "game-getter". I load a Beartooth LBT style bullet 185 grain gas checked over 15.8 grains and a Winchester SPP (NON-magnum) and it's a bit over 1200fps. The 200# sow I got with that load would have been just as dead if the bullet were going at 1100 ot 1000 fps...work up loads slow and pick based on accuracy.

Another great round is the Thompson design Lyman 358156...a double crimp gas check semi-wadcutter design that drops at about 158-164 grains with wheel wheits for casting material. 14.0 grains of 2400 is what my Lyman manual has listed as the max load. After my stash of 185 grainers is used up, it's this Lyman bullet that I will use exclusively for my .357, as it will serve the vast majority of my .357 duties...between the solid and hollow point mold.

A word on leading. FIT is the most important issue that has to be addressed to minimize leading. A bullet that is too small WIll LEAD...no mater how hard you cast it. Slug your bore and cast/size for .001-.002" larger than bore diameter. On some Rugers, you may need to have the throats opened up to make sure the bullet isn't swagged down in size....or, as in the sace of my S&W there was a constriction where the barrel screws into the frame that had to be fire lapped out. Since then...no more leading whatsoever.

 

[Lefty SRH]

Your point of aim with the 180 grain will be higher than with 158 grain rounds. If you want the lbt style, they are a "game-getter". I load a Beartooth LBT style bullet 185 grain gas checked over 15.8 grains and a Winchester SPP (NON-magnum) and it's a bit over 1200fps. The 200# sow I got with that load would have been just as dead if the bullet were going at 1100 ot 1000 fps...work up loads slow and pick based on accuracy.

What powder is under the 185gr LBT? Which handgun?

 

[Nowata]

Wow, pretty hots loads for a 3" barrel. My ears are singing just thinking about those "big bangs". Check out loadswap.com.

 

[WESHOOT2]

Theoritically, the 180g Penn might get driven to 1200fps using new sized cases, CCI500, and 14.0g AA9, crimped firmly using the superior Redding Profile Crimp Die.

But in ACTUAL PRACTICE, one might instead START at 12.5g and work up slowly, using .2g increments.

 

[pps]

Your point of aim with the 180 grain will be higher than with 158 grain rounds. If you want the lbt style, they are a "game-getter". I load a Beartooth LBT style bullet 185 grain gas checked over 15.8 grains and a Winchester SPP (NON-magnum) and it's a bit over 1200fps. The 200# sow I got with that load would have been just as dead if the bullet were going at 1100 ot 1000 fps...work up loads slow and pick based on accuracy.

What powder is under the 185gr LBT? Which handgun?

Sorry...it was H-110 powder.

 

[hammeredbean]

Accuracy is far mor important than velocity to me.. I picked that velocity out of the air just to have a top end goal. If my point of impact is way off, I'll have to use the 158's anyway.... I really want to see the full potential out the cartridge/gun combo without being unsafe. I am guessing those walmart federals weren't doing much more if any than 1000 fps out of my gun yet they completely penetrated the two deer I shot.

 

[gramps]

I have a 3 inch sp-101 that I use 158 gr. .358 LSWC over 13.5 grs of 2400. I do not know the velocity, but it gets the job done.
gramps

 

[mr surveyor]

I have a 3 inch sp-101 that I use 158 gr. .358 LSWC over 13.5 grs of 2400. I do not know the velocity, but it gets the job done.
gramps

That pretty well described my new favorite handload.... I checked a load a couple of weeks ago with 13.2 gr of 2400 with RimRock 158 gr LSWC at average 1084 fps from my 3" SP101..... I'm looking for 1150 fps from the 3 incher, so will bump it up just a bit. As long as accuracy doesn't begin to suffer, or leading becomes a factor, I'll be satisfied with that as a "field load".

 

[gramps]

Mr Surveyor, in my gun it is accurate. Thanks for posting
the fps. I don't have a chrono
gramps

 

[Lefty SRH]

Your point of aim with the 180 grain will be higher than with 158 grain rounds. If you want the lbt style, they are a "game-getter". I load a Beartooth LBT style bullet 185 grain gas checked over 15.8 grains and a Winchester SPP (NON-magnum) and it's a bit over 1200fps. The 200# sow I got with that load would have been just as dead if the bullet were going at 1100 ot 1000 fps...work up loads slow and pick based on accuracy.

What powder is under the 185gr LBT? Which handgun?

Sorry...it was H-110 powder.

Figured it was but had to ask....

 

[Paul B]

Jimbo said, "There is a good chance that an SP with a 3" barrel won't like 180gr bullets."

I don't think that will be a problem Winchester and Remington used to make a "Police Load" expressly for snub nosed revolvers. Factory duplication data i an earlier Lyman mault states 3.5 gr of Unique and the Lyman bullet # 359430 would duplicate that factory load. Accuracy from S&W Models 60, 49 and an Airweight is very good. it can only be better from a .357 Mag. that pushes it a bit faster.
I'm not sure I'd like #2400 fom a .357 mag. with that short a barrel but it would most likely still give you the highest velocity. However, muzzle blast and a very bright flash is something you'll have to consider.
H110/W296 would also give great velocity but blast and flash would be even worse than #2400. W296 and H110 are just different lots of the same powder.
In the mid 1960's, I had an S&W M28 .357 mag. a 4" gun and the blast and flash from #2400 was something else. My load was well over what is considered maximum for the .357 Mag. today but was considered the normal maximum back then. I don't think I'd want to use that load in any 3" gun.
I shoot only cast lead bullets in my gun and some for the 38 Spl./.357 Mag use gas checks and some don't. Either way, as someone said, Fit is all important.
I'm of the thought that it's a bit irellivent whether the bullet is too hard or too soft. proper sizing and fit go a long way toward elimitating leading. Check out Elmer keith's pet alloy for his full power loads in the .44 magnum. He use a 16/1 lead/tin allow and that has to be awfully soft, if you ask me. Never did hear him gripe about leading.
If you can't find data for a 180 gr. cast bullet, look in the manuals for jata for a jacketed bullet of the same weight and work up that way. Works for me.
Paul B.

 

[10X]

I would say you will see some lead ....if its just a small amount just ahead of the forceing cone its pretty normal...there are alot a things to consider as to what causeing leading or not just as another poster already stated above....Rugers do tend to have bores of .357-.3575 and the cylinders are right there with it ....if your cylinders are smaller than the bore lead bullet accuracy will not be great and you will have a leading problem ..Its may be best to stay with softer lead bullets as oppsed to hard cast ....I use nothing but swaged lead bullets in my wheel guns as they tend to obliterate and fill the bore better so they seal better.....but as always every gun is its own animal ......some are picky and some are like Mikey and eat any thing .......10X out

 

[hammeredbean]

Thanks everyone for some great advice. I will post some results when I can try some of this out......errr..... it might be a while, but might be of some value to anyone else considering a heavier bullet in this small packin' gun. I can't seem to put an end to some of these projects that are supposed to fund the reloading equipment buy not to mention the other projects...... The purple hull peas and pole beans are coming in now too...lots of cannig to do!