Knife sharping with new ways, "I quit"

[volshooter]

Tried everything out there to sharpen my knives easier than my traditional method. Last product was a Lansky's best set up.
It was a lot of work to use the Lansky's, fair results.
Last week I went retro and got out my stones and strop. 5 minutes with each blade resulted in shaving sharp workhorses.
I have been know for 40 years for having any knife in my pocket that could shave a cat. These new fangled sharping systems will never beat a hand honed blade.
New is often not better than traditional. Examples are whet stones/strop, cast iron skillets fishing bait/lures, real charcoal grilling and sound Gospel.
Honestly I missed honing and stropping my knife blades.

 

[vortecMax]

I always get the best edge with stone and strap. Thanks dad for teaching me to use a stone.

 

[Jim Puke]

I prefer the cardboard wheels.

 

[cruzerlou]

Yep me too . Some of y'all that have seen and held my knives at Contender's place can testify that all those big Bowie knives are shaving sharp and every one was hand honed .
I have to thank my dad for that too.
The Lanskey is a great tool for like around the hunting/ fishing camp if for some reason you manage to dull one up real bad and want a quick fix but if you know what your doing you can skin deer all day long with just a quick touch up on your fine stone and a few strokes on your strop and still peal the hair right off your arm .
Lou
BTW For anyone that wants to learn the right way to sharpen a knife just goggle ( making a Bagwell Bowie) and watch that video .It's about 20 minutes long and yes its about knile making but near the end of it he shows you the right way to get your knife razor sharp and it's really easy to do once you get the technique down + it's cool to watch a real knifesmith take a hunk of steel and end up with a knife that is a working price of art.

 

[m657]

I've been trying for 40 to learn the 'shaving sharp' knife edge business. Got a drawer full of gizmos and still can not get decent edge like my old Gypsy buddy Clyde....Give him a rough Arkansas stone & a little fine "No. 232 Razor Hone for use with Lather or Dry~~
WR Case & Sons Cutlery Co. Bredford Pa"

and he was slicing down the nanometer level....

 

[wunbe]

Gerber sharpening steels work nicely enough for me. A series of 3,2,1, strops alternately on both sides of the aggressive surface. Then, the same on the polishing steel surface. From then on, unless you are doing heavy boning work on a mastadon, just touch up the edge on the polishing steel surface.

wunbe

 

[gasbag]

Kind of wondering why anyone would want to shave a cat. :?

 

[B.L. Hall]

 

[cruzerlou]

Kind of wondering why anyone would want to shave a cat. :?

Well what a dumb question!!! For the fun of it!!!!
JUST KIDDING .I've heard that term all my like when talking about sharp knives .
Must be one of those old southern sayings .
I can remember my dad saying it, figure he got it from his dad.
Lou

 

[wolfsong]

And remember, there's more than one way to skin a cat...

 

[cruzerlou]

Ain't that the cat's meow!!!
Lou

 

[GunnyGene]

Voshooter, I've tried many of the same things, and always go back to stones and strop. It's all about maintaining the correct angle, which is difficult without a lot of practice. Not just for knives, but also all my chisels, plane irons, etc. The only modern system I've ever seen that did a good job is the very expensive Tormek system.

 

[Fox Mike]

Yep me too . Some of y'all that have seen and held my knives at Contender's place can testify that all those big Bowie knives are shaving sharp and every one was hand honed .
I have to thank my dad for that too.

Are you talking about these things?

 

[contender]

I too fall into the bunch that always had issues getting a knife "just right" & sharp. For me, it's hit or miss when using a few stones & a strop. Sometimes, I do just fine, & other times, it seems the knife edge is worse than when I started. I understand the correct angle thing.
I tried a lot of different tools, and some did pretty good, while others made me feel I wasted my $$$.
I know a lot of folks like the Lansky system, but I felt the stones were too short, not allowing a longer blade (over 3-4") to be worked on. I have a Spyderco triangle system that's not bad, as well as a similar system.
Then, I found a company called "Wicked Edge." Their system is more expensive, but so far, it's been the best at always being able to set the same, exact angle every time I set it up. And, it has done wonders for my knives.
I'm sure this discussion is timeless & will continue long after we are all gone. But, one thing I have noticed it a switch to some companies offering a replaceable blade system. From the box cutter design, to now we have scalpel knives. I have to admit, the Havalon knives are great if that blade design will do the job you have at hand. I truly enjoy my Havalon's.

 

[Cracker-American]

I enjoy knowing how to get a blade sharp using various stones. I use both natural stones and manufactured. There is a kind of peace standing in my shop with a good stone and bringing a dull edge to hair popping sharp. I also own and use a paper/cardboard wheel system and have to admit it gets all of my blades sharper, quicker than any of my stones.

There is a time for both. Company coming to dinner, the roast standing and ready is no time for the pleasurable zen of some stone time. Literally one and a half to two minutes on the paper wheel and it's time to carve.

 

[graygun]

Had some training in scouts but oh so long ago. I have some gizmos too but seems hand technique rules.

 

[volshooter]

"shave a cat" means the knife is very sharp and only needs one pass to get the job done real quick before the critters eats you up. :lol:

I use steel for kitchen knives. 30 seconds and you can skin a tomato.

What is the cardboard wheel? Makes sense, could someone explain process/set up for me?

My grandfather taught me to sharpen knives. Dad never got the hang of it so I sharpened his knives. Papaw gave me my first Barlow. Every time I seen Papaw he would say "let me see your knife boy". He would check the blade for sharpness, check the body for rust or crap inside and smooth opening.
If blood was present on the blade, I got a smile out of the old mean man. No it did not mater where the blood came from. :lol:

 

[whichwatch]

I use a Lansky system. it's time consuming but puts a great edge on my knives.. I like the fact that you can choose different bevel angles depending upon what the knife is used for and the angle is uniform on both sides. I plan on moving up to the diamond stones soon. I understand that you can use water with the diamond stones and not honing oil??? The oil is a bit messy to clean up after using the stones.

 

[Mike J]

Okay so I have still been using an old Smith Tri-Hone with a coarse stone & soft & hard Arkansas stones. I also have another rig that was made by Smith that is similar to the Lansky system I use sometimes if an edge is really messed up just to get it started back to where it should be. I am curious about the cardboard & paper wheels. Anyone got a link.

 

[6mm Remington]

If you guys have the skills to be able to get a knife shaving sharp with stones, then God bless you. Not me. I can dull a knife with the best of them. I got a Lansky sharpener and after getting the hang of it, I love that thing. I can get my knives scary sharp now and cannot believe I waited so long to get one and try. It puts the perfect edge side to side and is precise, which I believe is almost impossible to do by hand or eye. It might take a while to get a knife shaving sharp with this system, but once it is there, it's simple to keep it that way and just a few strokes once in a while, depending on how roughly the knife is used, and it's back to shaving sharp again. Now that being said if I would have found this system first, I probably would have went with it and I think here that not too far down the road, I'm going to order this sharpening system.

http://www.kmesharp.com/kmeknshsy.html

 

[Number9]

I learned to sharpen a hunting knife about 50 years ago from an old hunter.
He called his method.. "progressive sharping".

Near the handle, the first 1/3 of the blade will have an angle of around 25 or 30 degrees..
which makes this part be considerably more durable and used for course cutting around bone or cartilage without edge damage.

The center 1/3 of the blade will have and angle around 20 degrees.. which will cut very well and are still durable.

The last 1/3 of the blade to the point will have an angle around 10 to 15 degrees..
With a total angle of 20 to 30 degrees, this is a very fine edge. This edge is typically too weak for any knife that might be used in any type of chopping motion. Also consider at this angle that harder steels are more susceptible to impact damage because they are more brittle. If your knife is used for cutting soft items or slicing meats, this lower angle can hold up and provide a very smooth cutting action. And yes, it will shave a cat! :mrgreen:

 

[DA_TriggR4Ruger]

I'm terrible at sharpening knives. Looking for the best technique and tools to utilize with said technique

 

[Rick Courtright]

HI,

I'm in that camp that never "got it" with hand stones. I've worn out a lot of steel, and a couple of stones, trying to figure it out. Diamond, synthetic and natural stones have all been tried. One time I can make a razor blade, the next time I try I get a club.

So I do better with "systems" than by hand. Have a Lansky, a Spyderco, and an old Kwik-Sharp (out of business for years) which is kinda like the Spyderco but with round rods. Each has its place, but that old one does the best for me.

One thing I've never understood is why razor blades are sharpened by machine at the rate of a half zillion an our or so, have a perfect edge and cost almost nothing, while way too many knives, "good" brands as well as lesser ones, come from the factory with a "sorta" edge that looks like it was put on by a 12 year old apprentice on his first day with a sanding belt, even though many are pricey enough to warrant a bit more care. And that MAY be part of the problem for many of us:

I read an article years ago, about sharpening knives, written by either A.G. Russell or Bo Randall. I figure either of those guys should know a thing or two about the subject! The author said the very first thing one should do with a new blade is take a good look at it, and most of them will need to be dressed with a FILE before ever seeing a STONE. He described all the waves and ripples we see in so many blades, and said one will never get that kind of edge properly sharp. I haven't tried that yet. On a knife, that is: on axe blades, yes. But I agree it's impossible to get an edge on some factory blades the way they come out of the box...

A buddy says impatience also plays into a lot of our problems. We want an edge in a few strokes on a blade that needs a lot of work to be able to take one. He was taught to sharpen things in one of his toolmaking classes, and can do a bang up job by hand or with a system. He says not to be afraid to devote a half hour to some blades to get 'em in shape. For a guy like me with adult onset ADD, that knocks me out of the picture!

But I keep trying... maybe one day the light will go on! ;)

Rick C

 

[Number9]

Rick..

On a new knife I will dress the factory edge using a medium stone to make sure any irregularities are removed from the blade. I will move the stone on the blade up and down the edge. One of the most important parts to sharping a blade is always make sure the stone is wet with cutting oil and never used dry!
... I've never used a file on a quality knife!

 

[Rick Courtright]

Rick..

On a new knife I will dress the factory edge using a medium stone to make sure any irregularities are removed from the blade. I will move the stone on the blade up and down the edge. One of the most important parts to sharping a blade is always make sure the stone is wet with cutting oil and never used dry!
... I've never used a file on a quality knife!

Hi,

Wayne, I've never had the courage to take a file to any knife blade, either! Not even a $2 Pakistani special. (As mentioned, I have shaped axe blades that way, but that's another discussion.) What you're describing sounds at least a bit like Mr. Bagwell's approach in the link Lou provided. The concept sounds the same as the file idea: make sure all the high and low spots are removed FIRST (pretty much the same way woodworkers sand their products smooth before applying the finish.) Have I got that part right?

Now, on dry stones: I was taught like you that they always get oil, or water, and don't mix 'em. In other words, if you want to use a stone as an oil stone, that's what you start with and stay with. Same with a waterstone. Most I've seen are described by the mfr as to what lubricant to use, and I figure those guys know a lot more than I do so I just follow their instructions.

Enter a guy who poo-poos centuries of knowledge and experience: John Juranitch. I understand he's caused a lot of commotion in the knife world the last few years by claiming stones should be used DRY as the lubricant/slurry tends to dull the blade! I wouldn't tell that to an old Japanese master with his collection of waterstones used to sharpen "5 body" Samurai swords, but just to play along, I read some of Juranitch's stuff. I think he's full of baloney and just trying to sell his own stones, but you might find him entertaining!

Rick C

 

[GunnyGene]

Nearly any abrasive will sharpen. The key is to progress to finer and finer grits. I've used wet/dry paper up to 2000 grit from an auto body shop, stuck on a piece of glass. Works just fine. What makes a long lasting edge is to make the "saw tooth" pattern from coarser grits finer and finer using finer grits, whether it's sandpaper or 8000 grit stones. Put an edge under a microscope and you'll see what I mean. The sawtooth breaks with use, resulting in a edge that will dull faster than one with very fine (molecular size) edge. This is where honing with a strop is beneficial.

The other part of this is that a shallow angle may bend (thin metal) depending on what you are cutting, which will also result in a dull blade after a short time. Too steep of an angle and the edge will last longer, but not make fine cuts. A few degrees of angle either way from optimum for the particular task can make a huge difference in both durability of the edge and fineness of cut. On a gross level, you can equate this to the difference between a splitting axe and a skinning knife. A 5 molecule edge will shave the hair off a fly, but won't last long cutting bone, and vice versa.

 

[Dan in MI]

There is one gizmo that is the rage among archers for sharpening knives. The KME. I have traded into one, but still use my stones.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned that is the death knell for guys trying to sharpen broadheads. PRESSURE. you need to quit leaning on the tool (knife, broadhead etc) when you start finishing each abrasive level.

 

[Pat-inCO]

I actually like the "new" systems . . . . . . . . . to rough cut the angle.
After it is as sharp as you can get, with the "new" ones, THEN go
get it sharp.

 

[Number9]

Oil is used on a stone to help keep the pores clean and to prevent clogging, this allows the stone to cut the steel better.

 

[volshooter]

The same as Number9. the very back of my blade is too honed to a greater angle than the tip. I don't measure this stuff just the way it is when I sharpen. The tip, for me, has to be pin point and pert near razor sharp. For digging out splinters and such. I have taken a file or rough stone to almost every knife blade I have ever bought. When I get done the first 1/16th to 1/8th of the blade is like a mirror.

Broad heads are different. My experience and research has shown me that very fine file marks angled toward the tip are better. It grabs meat and blood carrying tissue/veins into the cutting edge. Works for me.
Not a very good comparison but think of a round ball passing through meat, the tissue will give and allow expansion to let ball through due to the shape of ball. A wadcutter demands sharp clean holes by it's nature and will cut one.