June 25th 1876.

tom black

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141 years ago this evening, George Armstrong Custer managed to get himself an a good portion of the 7th. Cavalry annihated by a bunch of ticked off Indians. The Little Bighorn battlefield is on my bucket list of things to see while I'm still on the green side of the grass.
Tom Black
Cantucky
 
I have been there. Custer sure screwed up. Too bad he took 268 men with him because of his ego.
 
It wasn't Custer's ego so much as it was Reno and Benteen's cowardice that sealed the fate of Custer and the men with him.
 
jgt said:
It wasn't Custer's ego so much as it was Reno and Benteen's cowardice that sealed the fate of Custer and the men with him.


+1
 
He did two things a good commander never does. He underestimated his enemy and he 'split' his forces. Reno and Benteen ended up being the 'scapegoats' for Custer's ego and stupidity.
 
I have been to the site twice and it left me in awe both times to think about how things went that day.
 
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They ought to put a option for "Like`s" on this site. I seldom use em but would on the above post`s.
 
Many years ago I stumbled upon a place near Scio, Ohio, with a marker stating that as Custer's boyhood home. Since that time there has been erected a monument and statue of Custer at that spot. It's sort of in the middle of nowhere, but on the day of dedication, about 10,000 Indians showed up to protest.

And while on one of our drives, I discovered this grave stone near LaGrange, Tennessee:



He was apparently absent that day, as his death recorded on a headstone was given as 1897 or so.

Bob Wright
 
DixieBoy said:
Fox Mike said:
He did two things a good commander never does. He underestimated his enemy and he 'split' his forces. Reno and Bentley ended up being the 'scapegoats' for Custer's ego and stupidity.


For what it's worth, it's not "Bentley," it's Benteen. I think the man deserves better than what he got. DixieBoy
My dyslexic fingers stick again. :roll: :roll:
 
Here in Central Oregon, a Shoshoni (Snake) war chief named Has-No-Horse, used the knowledge of how much the Calvary hated to split their forces against the Calvery. Whenever faced with a superior Army force, his warriors would break off and retreat into smaller groups which stopped the Calvary from following them.

Central Oregon was the last of the Old West to be colonized by the "Ghost People" mainly due to the Shoshoni. I am finishing up some research into our history here and plan on some posts. We had everything about the old west: warrior Indians, gold strikes, Oregon Trail wagon trains attacked, corrupt Indian Reservation agents, range wars, hired guns fighting each other (most notable being Hank Vaughan), politicians lining their pockets (to many to name), slavery using Indians (not much talked about these days), and General Crook who fought against and then with Has No Horse.

Of course there was also the fair, educated Indian maiden, who charmed the nation. Then we had the sheep killer Ochoco vigilantes who mostly hung sheepmen. We had soiled doves with hearts of gold, one best known as Klondike Kate, at her peak, earned more than the President of the U.S.

A lot of this action lasted well into the 20th Century. As late as the 1950's two gentlemen here solved their property line dispute face to face with rifles. The winner was found not guilty by a court of law (self defense).
 
Three years later, British forces in South Africa suffered a defeat under very similar circumstances at a place called Islandwana. The parallels are striking.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Isandlwana
 
toysoldier said:
Three years later, British forces in South Africa suffered a defeat under very similar circumstances at a place called Islandwana. The parallels are striking.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Isandlwana

Hi,

I don't know enough about that battle to judge the overall authenticity of the movie made about it, Zulu Dawn, but if memory serves, they got into that failure of leadership along the way thru the battle.

Rick C
 
Not to ruffle any feathers, but the troopers were cavalry.

Calvary was another place of death, but victory also!

Bob Wright
 
Zulu is one of my favorite movies, even with the occasional glimpse of a rubber bayonet.
Zulu Dawn, the prequel, shows British military practice at its worst; Zulu shows it at its best.
 
I've actually walked the battlefield sites at little bighorn.
I believe custers ego and splitting his forces up.that and
268 to 8000 might have helped do him in. Jmo
 
Colonialgirl said:
I seem to recall that Custer's performance during the war of northern aggression wasn't all that outstanding and brilliant either.

Hi,

Dunno about that one, but in the War of the Rebellion, there have been reports that Custer, who'd graduated at the bottom of his West Point class, was brash and careless enough his superiors sent him into some "impossible" situations hoping to get him killed. Instead, he managed to survive over and over, ending up a brevet (major or brigadier?) general as a result.

After the war, there have been other reports Custer was sent west to fight the Indians with some of that same "Maybe we'll be done with him" mentality. Whether any of these reports is true, I can't say. But they certainly fit in with his behavior. Other than his wife Libby, I don't think he had many admirers if there wasn't a mirror around.

Regardless of where fingers may be pointed, it's pretty hard to argue Custer didn't screw the pooch in grand fashion the way he handled Little Big Horn. I was probably still in grade school when I read an interview with Sitting Bull as an old man, and the Chief said Custer fought bravely that day, but without criticizing his enemy, he never said it was a smart fight. Years later, I had an American West history prof who loved Custer, as an example of how to become famous for all the wrong reasons. "Egomaniac" was not politically incorrect yet, and he liked that word. He could go on forever about either the war, or the Indian campaigns, as examples... and would probably have agreed Custer met his maker that day with the blood of a lot of good men on his hands.

Rick C
 
"Custer also left his gatling guns at home IIRC"

I thought they were in the packs that he sent written orders for Reno to bring up to his(Custer's) position. Unfortunately Reno and Benteen had "issues" with Custer and left him hanging on the limb.
 
Custer fought a very poor battle, poor recon, underestimating the enemy both in numbers and fighting spirit, divided his forces in the face of the enemy, his units not mutually supporting, poor use of terrain, etc.
His performance in the Civil War was very good, in some respects he was a Northern Jeb Stuart, somewhat flamboyant, but he led from the front, understood the importance of morale and esprit .
 
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