Jay Silverheels

caryc

Hawkeye
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Messages
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Southern California
Watched an old episode of the Lone Ranger this morning. I wonder what Jay Silverheels thought of being called "redskin" or "injun" at least three times per episode? Times sure were different back then.

I'll bet he laughed all the way to the bank.
 
I yam fighting to contain myself. Think I read a different answer as to what they thought it meant in a Mad comic book sixty years ago or so.
Years ago I met Iron Eyes Cody. He pumped my arm Injun style. I went along with it and enjoyed his act . I knew he was Italian.
 
bogus bill said:
I yam fighting to contain myself. Think I read a different answer as to what they thought it meant in a Mad comic book sixty years ago or so.
Years ago I met Iron Eyes Cody. He pumped my arm Injun style. I went along with it and enjoyed his act . I knew he was Italian.

Then there's the joke about the Lone Ranger and Tonto being surrounded by hostile Indians and the ranger says, "Tonto my old friend, I guess we've come to the end of the trail." Tonto says "What you me we, white man"?
 
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caryc said:
Watched an old episode of the Lone Ranger this morning. I wonder what Jay Silverheels thought of being called "redskin" or "injun" at least three times per episode? Times sure were different back then.

I'll bet he laughed all the way to the bank.

Keep in mind that THOSE terms were commonly used during the time period when the "Lone Ranger" was taking place.
 
Tonto in Apache means "empty headed ones", Kemosabe means "white man who knows nothing"....
 
Colonialgirl said:
caryc said:
Watched an old episode of the Lone Ranger this morning. I wonder what Jay Silverheels thought of being called "redskin" or "injun" at least three times per episode? Times sure were different back then.

I'll bet he laughed all the way to the bank.

Keep in mind that THOSE terms were commonly used during the time period when the "Lone Ranger" was taking place.

I know they were. That's why I was wondering what "he" personally thought about being called a redskin. By "commonly used", of course you mean used by the white man. That doesn't mean the native Americans like it.
 
I have been fortunate to have a few very close Indian friends through the years. They had a great sense of humor.
I did know of several tragic story's they went through and got involved with one that worked for me as we also lived together. Firewater and principals were involved and some people dyed in two separate incidents. The ones I knew definitely couldn't handle liquor. Back in just my time many areas still wouldn't sell liquor to them and it was for reason. I think their metabolism couldn't handle it. Back in the late 1950`s my job partner at a foundry was a real nice guy and I liked him. Later he was back on the Rez, drinking with his brother. They ran out of money, hit up a third brother for money, he wouldn't give them any and the two brothers beat their brother to death!
A half mile from our house five or so years ago a drunk Indian (I didn't know him but people that did know him all liked him) got stuck in the snow. A town cop stopped, a got shovel and was shoveling out his car for him. The Indian took the cops shotgun out of his car and shot him! Fortunately with his vest and heavy clothing it didn't kill him. The Indian ran but was found hiding under a culvert under the road.
The one that worked for me in the early 1960`s was the best on my crew. I was a foreman that did contract jobs all over the country, would hit a town and had digging work to do immediately and hired anyone I could for minimum wage to work the next day and get them anyway I could. I hired "Nelson". The other guys gave me the word Nelson was a local tough that always fought everyone for entertainment etc. Nelson liked me and me him. He was thankful for the cheap hard dirty job and worked his azz off for me. He took me home to meet his family.
He/we caught his wife in a compromising situation. We left and he cried in my truck. Told me he had to kill her. "It`s the way of my people". He had me drive him over to his fathers house. I noticed him through the windows looking through a couple rooms. I figured he was looking for a gun. He was wearing tight jeans and I figured I could make him if he found one. If he did I planned on cold cocking him and driving him to the local PD station as they were well acquainted with him. When he came out he admitted he had been looking for a gun but evidently his dad was tipped and hid them. He wanted to go have a drink. I now thought that a good idea and planned to get him so drunk he couldn't do anything and wing it. (I was also young, dumb and using the idea as a stall while I figured out something better.)
In the course of our bar hopping he told another guy his problem, the guy called his preacher for counseling and I drove him there. The do gooder had him promise to come to church that weekend.
Finally I dropped Nelson off at a flop house, probably thought him too drunk to do anything and drove to my parents about sixty miles away for the week end. I think my mother had met Nelson prior through me plus my dad knew either Nelsons dad or uncle that had been the county sheriff years prior.
Folks went to church, I stayed home trying to catch up on payroll work I had neglected through all this.
Phone rang, PD wanted to know did I know a Nelson -----. I told them I would be by the next day or two.
I went and they wanted a couple hundred to bail him out on a disorderly conduct charge. I said look, I am headed for Sault St Marie and will take him with me. I knew he was headed for trouble and held back a few bucks
for this. I will take him out of the area. I think they got their heads together and I got him for about twenty bucks and off we went. We got in my truck and I asked him what happened? He DID go to church, made some comment, "Hey! Thats pretty good music! Let`s have a hoe down! The ushers tried to evict him, he fought them and the PD come got him. We went to the UP. I had a seventeen foot travel trailer I pulled and we lived and worked together about a week. I kept a revolver handy that he didn't know I had. One night he got drunk, told me he was taking some pills that was gonna kill him. I rolled over in bed and said something like go ahead. Had my revolver in hand under my pillow and waited. He opened the door and spit them out. Then he said he was hitching a ride back to go kill her tomorrow. "It`s the way of my people". The next morning I drove him out to the main road and that's the last I saw him. Of course I dropped a dime on him to the local PD I had bailed him out of and told them he was coming back to kill his wife.
A year or two later my mother sent me a newspaper article where he was driving drunk, hit and killed a car load of people and was hanging on to life. Just remembering. Thanks.
 
caryc said:
I know they were. That's why I was wondering what "he" personally thought about being called a redskin. By "commonly used", of course you mean used by the white man. That doesn't mean the native Americans like it.

Hi,

The "Native Americans" I've know in person have all called themselves Indians. No biggie. I never thought to ask if other terms offended them, out of fear of being scalped--yeah, like Bill's acquaintances, they had a good sense of humor! ;)

As for the Lone Ranger, I always liked the story about the Lone Ranger getting bitten by the rattlesnake. Without going into details, the punch line goes "Doctor say Lone Ranger gonna die."

Rick C
 
Colonialgirl said:
caryc said:
Watched an old episode of the Lone Ranger this morning. I wonder what Jay Silverheels thought of being called "redskin" or "injun" at least three times per episode? Times sure were different back then.

I'll bet he laughed all the way to the bank.

Keep in mind that THOSE terms were commonly used during the time period when the "Lone Ranger" was taking place.

Yep. Honest Injun! :mrgreen:
 
The thing is "Indian" was not some derogatory name. Supposedly that's what Columbus called them because he thought he was in India.

I don't think I've ever heard what the Indians referred to themselves as. I remember one thing Louie L'Amour said about Indians. He said they were a war like people who thought that one was either his enemy or his friend. If he knew you, you were his friend. If he didn't know you, you were his enemy and he would kill you. Apparently the tribes fought each other. Since he didn't know them they were his enemy.
 
I'm 1/2 Mohawk & 1/2 Dutch & use the name "Indian" regularly (some relatives are Apache)... I find it funny as do several native American friends (White man is so stupid they think they're in India!). The correct term here in SEAZ is Nde, Apaches are Dinee. Jay Silverheels was a Canadian born Mohawk (born Harold Jay Smith), boxer, lacrosse player, lumberjack & actor. He followed the script in movies & was very good @ it. Indian humor is contagious & they're a laugh riot to work w/... constant banter, pranks etc. & very loyal friends. However if you tick one off things are going to get wild NOW!
 
InjunBro said:
(White man is so stupid they think they're in India!).

Hi,

My family came from the Netherlands in the 1660s, settling in New Amsterdam (Manhattan today.) The Dutch and English were ok with the $24 of beads and blankets deal, but many of the "locals" didn't like it, and they were constantly raiding the white settlements.

Way back when, the boundary between the whites and natives was what is now the street known as Central Park North (aka 110th St if memory serves) Several of the Dutch settlers moved up there and set up forts to help stop some of the raiding. One of my relatives was among them, and he opened a saloon, figuring it was tough work guarding against the Indians all day and folks would appreciate a cold one after work.

He kept getting in trouble: even back then, there was some kind of Alcoholic Beverage Control board who licensed alcohol sales. One of his licensing requirements was that he could not sell alcohol to the Indians. But being an enterprising Dutchman, he figured the Indians' money was as good as anybody's, and he made more money off sales to them than the fines ran! So he carried on...

Back to the $24 deal, I heard a story a few years back involving an Indian in New York who was asked about it. The interviewer suggested the Indians really got the short end of that stick. But the Indian fellow told him, "Oh, no, we just have to be patient. Remember, we gave you tobacco, so sooner or later you'll all be gone and we'll get Manhattan back. With improvements!"

Rick C
 
For awhile at least, Jay Silverheels lived in Brooklyn, NY where I lived. This was in the early 1950's if I recall correctly. We kids would always cheer for him when we saw his car, a Cadillac convertible with a set of longhorns on the hood in place of the Cadillac hood ornament (remember those?). I have read that he was a real cowboy who made it in Hollywood more by chance than design.
 
I think he lived around Little Rock California area when he died. At the time I lived in about 8 miles away in Palmdale. Think I read he had a acting school for Indians.
 
57springer said:
Kemosabe is translated as "trusty scout " is there another translation ?

The explanation I found most credible was that it was a sort of "pidgeon spanish", derived from the Spanish "Lo que me sabe" meaning "one I know" or "one who is known to me."
 
"Umgawa" or "ungawa" was a word used by Tarzan to communicate with critters and occasionally natives in all the old movies.

I'm not sure the context ever hinted at an actual meaning.
 

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