Issues fitting grip frame

[jamesellik]

I have a pair of birdshead grip Vaqueros (not New Vaquero Talo). Use them for cowboy mounted shooting and didnt care for the small grips. After trying other competitors guns, I bought a pair of what I believe are New Vaquero grip frames to swap on and get more of the slimmer, Colt feel. My grip frames are marked "K" XR-3 see pic.

Decided on a set of Altamont checkered grip panels. Not sure if they shipped me the wrong stuff, if their fitment is that poor, or if Im incorrect in what grip frames I now have. The holes for the grip panel dowel are in the wrong location, the grip is not notched for the 'ears' where the grip frame fits to the action, and the neck of the grip panels dont reach all the way forward to the front of the frame.

Since this whole nomenclature for Ruger grip frames is confusing as hell, any experts out there able to help me?

 

[jamesellik]

some more research turned this up:

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=79607

guy asked ruger a question about installed NV black plastic grips from a blued gun on his single six stainless.

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Response:
The black rubber grips will only fit on models with the internal lock. The stainless models do not have the internal lock. You can check with Eagle Grips at 800-323-6144, Hogue at 800-438-4747, Ajax Custom Grips at 214-630-8893, Pachmayr at 800-225-9626, or http://www.woodgrips.com.

If you need further information, please visit our website at http://www.ruger.com or contact us at:

Revolvers, shotguns, rifles, 10/22 Charger Pistol: (603) 865-2442
Pistols: (928) 778-6555
Serial Number History Information: (603) 865-2424

Please note: This e-mail is sent from a notification-only address that cannot accept incoming e-mail. Please do not reply to this message.

Sincerely,
Ruger Firearms
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I thought the stainless single six 32's and stainless NV's shared the same grip frame and were the same shape as the blued NV's. Question is, when ordering grip panels, is there a difference between the stainless and blued version? The aftermarket sites I've looked at dont seem to distinguish between the two. Im totally confused.

For what its worth, I've fit the grip frames to my guns. Fit is great and they function as they should, I just need some damn panels to cover them up!!

 

[gmartinnc]

All I can add is that I have a 45 LC Flattop built on the small frame like the New Vaquero, and the grips on it are unlike anything else I have.

 

[gmartinnc]

You asked for a expert and that I'm not, but do think I have this figured out. I remembered taking some photos of my flattop after I got it, and just found them. The grip frame in the top of the photo is a regular Blackhawk. It has the protusions at the top under the grip panels, and takes a slightly longer grip to fill the void. The one at the bottom is the Flattop/NewVaquero grip frame. I also remember the locating pins being at different locations as you said.

d. \
This photo shows the difference in the length of the small frame grips (white)and the regular Blackhawk grips with the cutout.(black).
Problem is, you do not have a pair of New Vaquero grip frames, they are the regular size Blackhawk/Vaquero grip frames.

 

[jamesellik]

thanks for the help!! frustrating as I bought the two grip frames off two different guys, each claiming they were New Vaqueros. There is so much bad information out there it doesnt make this any easier. Looks like Im ordering another set of panels for a Vaquero/Blackhawk. I hate throwing money at problems without knowing for sure what Im getting, but at this point I need to finish these guns before competitions start......

 

[gmartinnc]

thanks for the help!! frustrating as I bought the two grip frames off two different guys, each claiming they were New Vaqueros. There is so much bad information out there it doesnt make this any easier. Looks like Im ordering another set of panels for a Vaquero/Blackhawk. I hate throwing money at problems without knowing for sure what Im getting, but at this point I need to finish these guns before competitions start......

Do you know of someone with a full size Blackhawk that will let you check the fit of his grips on one of your frames? That will confirm everything.

 

[Fox Mike]

Scroll down on this link and look at the pics of the different grips.
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=131343

 

[caryc]

I can tell just by looking at the grip frame that it is for a Vaquero, not a New Vaquero. How, you might ask? By looking at the back strap I can see that it flairs out towards the bottom. The frame you show is an XR3-RED. If you measure the width of that frame you'll find out that it is .500". The New Vaquero grip frame is .437" in width.

I've written this all out a million times so this will be one million and one. Over the 60 some years, Ruger has used only three basic sizes of the plow handle style grip frames. Take a look at the drawing below and you see the three sizes.

The XR3-RED size is used on the Blackhawk, Vaquero, Single Six and the Old Army.

Now about the XR3. The XR3 is the first grip frame that Ruger came out with back in the fifties. You can see by the drawings that it is about an eighth inch smaller front to back than the XR3-RED. In 1962 Ruger replaces the XR3 with the XR3-RED. The "RED" is short for "re-designed".

In 2005 Ruger brought out the New Vaquero and trying to emulate the old smaller Colt grip frames for the cowboy action shooters, they brought back the XR3 grip frame in steel. But they actually made it .437" in width instead of the original .500" in width. Now back to my question above, how did I know your frame was an XR3-RED and not a XR3?

See the other pic below. The XR3 grip frame has a straight back strap and the XR3-RED back strap flairs out towards the bottom.

Concerning the new XR3 grip frames, one must also be aware that all the new flat tops that Ruger produces use that smaller XR3 grip frames even though they are Blackhawks.

Hope this helps you as this or a similar question seems to come up once a week. Bottom line here is that if you used the grip frame pictured they are XR3-RED Blackhawk/Vaquero grip frames so order grips made for those guns.

If one is unsure about New Vaquero or not, just measure the width of the grip frame. The New XR3 is .437" in width.

 

[caryc]

All I can add is that I have a 45 LC Flattop built on the small frame like the New Vaquero, and the grips on it are unlike anything else I have.

Your gun has the "New Vaquero" New XR3 grip frame on it.

 

[jamesellik]

thanks! I bought the grip frames sight-unseen from two different guys both of which said they came off New Vaquero's. KXR-3 stampings seemed to verify that. Didnt realize Ruger stamped two different grip frames the same.

 

[caryc]

thanks! I bought the grip frames sight-unseen from two different guys both of which said they came off New Vaquero's. KXR-3 stampings seemed to verify that. Didnt realize Ruger stamped two different grip frames the same.

I've been specializing in Ruger grips for nine years now and I've never once asked a customer what is marked on their grip frame. All one has to do is draw a three inch square on a piece of paper and see how their grip panel fits it.

Don't ever take anyone's word that a grip frame is a New Vaquero. Ask them to measure the width. You can't go wrong that way.

 

[flatgate]

As usual, Cary goes the extra mile and educates the troops.

Yup, misinformation is rampant among the masses. This issue comes up quite frequently.

Thank You, Cary!

flatgate

 

[caryc]

As usual, Cary goes the extra mile and educates the troops.

Yup, misinformation is rampant among the masses. This issue comes up quite frequently.

Thank You, Cary!

flatgate

Thanks Flatgate, coming from you, I consider that a real compliment.

With that New XR3 being around now for 8 years, I would have thought that some of the confusion would have died down by now. But then Ruger just keeps coming up with more surprises like putting it on the new flat tops !

Oh well...they're keeping me in business. :mrgreen:

 

[Hondo44]

jamesellik,

Cary's way is full proof, period. You might consider having Cary make you custom slim grip panels for the frames you have if the slimness is basically what you want.
The Colt size New Vaquero grip frames may not feel as good to you on the large frame Vaquero, it's heavier.

You wanted the New Vaquero/NM Blackhawk Flat Top Small steel (old model XR3 Colt size) (cut for indexing pawl system, no extensions into main frame & only 7/16” thick) = A (in a square), no other marking observed. The grips you receved are correct for the grip frames that you WANTED.

But you received: Large steel = A (in a square) XR-3 (that's XR dash 3)
for large frame original Vaqueros and large frame SBH.


Here are all the markings of all the grip frames. Notice some different grips use the same marking and also notice that some same grips have more than one marking! This took some time to figure out but it is correct and up to date:

Identification Numbers Marked on GRIP FRAMES (not including Super BH, Birdshead or Bearcat):

BLUE NM:
Large steel = A (in a square) XR-3* (that's XR dash 3)
Large alloy w/o lock: Early = NXR3-RED, Late = XRN-3RED. With lock XR & L
Small steel (XR3 Colt size) (cut for indexing pawl system, no extensions into main frame & only 7/16” thick) = A (in a square), no other marking observed
Short steel 'Baby" Vaquero .32s = A (in a square) XR-3. If ordered as a separate part = 302 A (in a square)

BLUE OM:
Early (Colt size) alloy to 1962 = XR3
Late, large alloy to 1972 including Pre 1985 Old Army alloy w/narrow trig slot and Hawkeye alloy w/wide trigger slot = XR3-RED
Old Army steel beginning 1985 with wide trigger slot = XRN-3

STAINLESS NM:
Large: Earliest = KXR-3*, Next = KXR-3 with a separate N, Late = K (in circle) XRN-3
Small XR3 size (cut for indexing pawl system, no extensions into main frame & only 7/16” thick = K (in circle)
Short = KXR-3*
SBH Hunter = KHRN 3

STAINLESS Steel Old Army:
Large (XR3-RED size) = KXR-3*

*Note: same # used on different frame sizes!

BRASS FRAMES:
Super Blackhawk Brass “Dragoon” style with square back trigger guard. Same dimensions as 1959 Super Blackhawk. Marked “MR-3DB.” Initially for Super Blackhawks, then shipped on various Blackhawks, majority in 1972.

Note also that when most people refer to the two original old model grips frame markings, XR3 or XR3 RED, for new models, they mean the XR3 'size' or XR3 RED 'size'. There are no new model grip frames marked as such. There is a new model frame marked XR-3 (that's XR dash 3) which is not the same as the old model XR3 (no dash).

Hope that helps,

 

[GasGuzzler]

..... but what if I want an Old Model Vaquero XR3 grip frame for pre-05?


LOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[Hondo44]

ROTFLMFHO! (rolling on the floor laughing my fool head off)

 

[DGW1949]

Just to give the sellers that were involved in this fiasco the benefit of doubt, it is quite possible that the grip frames in question did in fact come off of two new "Vaqueros", but not off of two "New Vaquero's" (sounds the same though, don't it?)....And least we forget....there is yet another size of Vaquero grip frame floating around that hasn't been mentioned yet. It came on a few of the .32H&R-cal Vaqueros. I've seen some of those that had been taken off of a "new Vaquero" being sold too.

So....if a guy tells someone that he has a grip frame for sale which came off of a new Vaquero, how would the perspective buyer know for sure what it is that is up for sale?....The simple fact is that he wouldn't, even if he thought he did.

DGW

 

[caryc]

Just to give the sellers that were involved in this fiasco the benefit of doubt, it is quite possible that the grip frames in question did in fact come off of two new "Vaqueros", but not off of two "New Vaquero's" (sounds the same though, don't it?)....And least we forget....there is yet another size of Vaquero grip frame floating around that hasn't been mentioned yet. It came on a few of the .32H&R-cal Vaqueros. I've seen some of those that had been taken off of a "new Vaquero" being sold too.

So....if a guy tells someone that he has a grip frame for sale which came off of a new Vaquero, how would the perspective buyer know for sure what it is that is up for sale?....The simple fact is that he wouldn't, even if he thought he did.

DGW

If the buyer is looking for a "New Vaquero" grip frame just have the seller measure the width of it. .437" = "New Vaquero". There is no mistaking that.

 

[protoolman]

..... but what if I want an Old Model Vaquero XR3 grip frame for pre-05?


LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Well if you are new around here we would probably figure you want a Steel XR-3 Red off an Old (original) sized Vaquero so we would know exactly what you want. I assume you mean you want one for your .45 Long Colt right??

 

[Hondo44]

Just to give the sellers that were involved in this fiasco the benefit of doubt, it is quite possible that the grip frames in question did in fact come off of two new "Vaqueros", but not off of two "New Vaquero's" (sounds the same though, don't it?)....And least we forget....there is yet another size of Vaquero grip frame floating around that hasn't been mentioned yet. It came on a few of the .32H&R-cal Vaqueros. I've seen some of those that had been taken off of a "new Vaquero" being sold too.

So....if a guy tells someone that he has a grip frame for sale which came off of a new Vaquero, how would the perspective buyer know for sure what it is that is up for sale?....The simple fact is that he wouldn't, even if he thought he did.

DGW

You can't eliminate all ambiguity in the world.
Buyer/seller would have to take some responsibility to know the subject matter; read some posts, and do what Cary suggested, it's fool proof. Communicate, communicate, communicate.

The 32 single six w/fixed sights absolutely is mentiuoned in my first post on the first page, but you have to read it. And it's not a Vaquero. It can be called a Vaquerito as Ruger did in some of its marketing or even a "baby" Vaquero, but its grip frame doesn't measure .437" in width.

 

[caryc]

If you'll check my wording again, I said Ruger has "basically" used only three sizes of plow handle style grips. It's true that Ruger has had some odd balls over the years. I didn't mention these because these were not made in large numbers and the people that actually have them would most likely know what they have.

They did make a long frame super. That was the large Super Blackhawk grip but it had an additional 1/4 of material on the bottom of it. That is an additional 1/4" over the 3 1/4" that the Super Blackhawk frames now have.

Then as mentioned that Vaquerito was a regular XR3-RED with a 1/4" cut off the bottom of it making it a "short frame" XR3-RED.

There is a lot of misinformation out there on Ruger grip frames. Just do your best if you're buying or selling something to make darn sure of what it actually is.

About 6 months after Ruger introduced the "New Vaquero", I had a customer call me and order a pair of New Vaquero grips. So I sent him his grips and he contacted me when he received them claiming they didn't fit. Luckily he only lived about an hours drive from me.

We arranged to meet at a half way point and he brought his new gun with him. When he went into the "Shootist" in Murietta he went in to buy a New Vaquero. Well, it turns out that they sold him a new Vaquero, as in a brand new gun. He thought he had a "New Vaquero". It turns out that he did OK though because what he had was one of the 45 caliber convertable Vaqueros that Davidsons put out.

I've been dealing with this "Vaquero" and "New Vaquero" crap for eight years now and it looks like it's a problem that is never going to go away. Ruger didn't do us any favors when the picked that name "New Vaquero".

 

[gmartinnc]

I was in Gander Mt. the other day and saw a couple of new, New Vaquero's in the display case. Both were identified on the tag as being a "Ruger Vaquero".
Over in the used guns they also had a Vaquero. It too was identified as a "Ruger Vaquero". "it's a problem that is never going to go away" is indeed a true statment when the dealers can't even get it right.

 

[caryc]

I was in Gander Mt. the other day and saw a couple of new, New Vaquero's in the display case. Both were identified on the tag as being a "Ruger Vaquero".
Over in the used guns they also had a Vaquero. It too was identified as a "Ruger Vaquero". "it's a problem that is never going to go away" is indeed a true statment when the dealers can't even get it right.

It's not just the dealers. Look in a current Ruger catalog. They advertise the "New Vaquero" as simply a "Vaquero".

 

[CraigC]

It came on a few of the .32H&R-cal Vaqueros.

No, that was the later model fixed sight .32 Single Sixes.

The large frame Vaquero was made as a .32 convertible and had the standard Vaquero/Blackhawk New Model XR3-RED grip frame.

Here's a shot of the "short" XR3-RED. The only difference is the length. The profile is the same and the locator pin is even in the same place.

 

[DGW1949]

I was in Gander Mt. the other day and saw a couple of new, New Vaquero's in the display case. Both were identified on the tag as being a "Ruger Vaquero".
Over in the used guns they also had a Vaquero. It too was identified as a "Ruger Vaquero". "it's a problem that is never going to go away" is indeed a true statment when the dealers can't even get it right.

It's not just the dealers. Look in a current Ruger catalog. They advertise the "New Vaquero" as simply a "Vaquero".

Yeah, then there's that. :lol: . :lol: . :lol: .

DGW