Is Expensive 22 Ammo Worth It?
- Thread starter hpman66
- Start date
Depends on whether you're betting $$ on the shots. Obviously his 10-22 liked the ELEY.
Great ammo is worth it if you intend to do great things.
But, his results with the first 3 brands indicates to me that he didn't take care with shot placement or trigger control. The group with the Ely indicates he can shoot & his rifle is up to the task. But notice how his timing & concentration changes with the last group. Seemed obvious to me.
But, his results with the first 3 brands indicates to me that he didn't take care with shot placement or trigger control. The group with the Ely indicates he can shoot & his rifle is up to the task. But notice how his timing & concentration changes with the last group. Seemed obvious to me.
I've said it many times, and probably will again: Every gun and ammo combination is a law unto itself, and there's no way to know what any particular gun "likes" without testing it. The gun doesn't care what your ammo costs. And all this is especially true with .22.
About a decade ago I tested 6 kinds of ammo carefully through about 20 different rifles. The cheap (then) Federal bulk stuff was consistently the least accurate, finishing 6th out of 6 in probably 2/3 of the guns. The most accurate rifle I shot was--no surprise--a scoped Anschutz, which easily finished the tests in #1 spot. But you'll never guess what the Anschutz grouped best with: The cheap Fed bulk that every other gun hated. Go figger. :shock:
As I said, shoot YOUR ammo in YOUR gun and see what works best for YOU. There's really no other way.
About a decade ago I tested 6 kinds of ammo carefully through about 20 different rifles. The cheap (then) Federal bulk stuff was consistently the least accurate, finishing 6th out of 6 in probably 2/3 of the guns. The most accurate rifle I shot was--no surprise--a scoped Anschutz, which easily finished the tests in #1 spot. But you'll never guess what the Anschutz grouped best with: The cheap Fed bulk that every other gun hated. Go figger. :shock:
As I said, shoot YOUR ammo in YOUR gun and see what works best for YOU. There's really no other way.
It's only worth it to the folks that think it is, me included.
I am an enthusiast of little tiny groups. If I can cut my 10-shot groups down to dime-size or less at 50 yards, I'm willing to pay for it. If I'm out shooting varmints that are dollar-bill size, then run of the mill ammo is quite sufficient. 8)
I've performed the same test many times. i've discovered the more you pay, the smaller the groups.
I am an enthusiast of little tiny groups. If I can cut my 10-shot groups down to dime-size or less at 50 yards, I'm willing to pay for it. If I'm out shooting varmints that are dollar-bill size, then run of the mill ammo is quite sufficient. 8)
I've performed the same test many times. i've discovered the more you pay, the smaller the groups.
Pat-inCO
Hawkeye
I had one session a decade or so ago that told me the variation by brand can be
quite large.
I was shooting a 77/22 from sandbags. The Winchester Silver Box ammo was
printing half inch groups at 50 yards. I was happy. - - - One of the guys at the
range was extolling the virtues of Federal and insisted I run ten through the 77/22.
OK, what the heck. Free ammo? I'll try it. The group I got with the Federal was
twice the size I was getting from the Winchester, AND a full inch lower on the target.
Golly-Gee-Whiz . . . . I wonder if that is why I never bought any Federal after that?
quite large.
I was shooting a 77/22 from sandbags. The Winchester Silver Box ammo was
printing half inch groups at 50 yards. I was happy. - - - One of the guys at the
range was extolling the virtues of Federal and insisted I run ten through the 77/22.
OK, what the heck. Free ammo? I'll try it. The group I got with the Federal was
twice the size I was getting from the Winchester, AND a full inch lower on the target.
Golly-Gee-Whiz . . . . I wonder if that is why I never bought any Federal after that?
Snake45 said:
Very true, although the match ammo is normally much more consistent. You'll find one gun may prefer Eley, while another RWS, but you'll seldom find any gun that will shoot cheap promo ammo as well as any of the match ammo. The ammo just isn't loaded to the same variances.
DeletedMember275
Hunter
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2002
- Messages
- 2,759
diyj98 said:
And even the expensive stuff has significant variations between different lots. Some vendors even test the different lot numbers and post the results on their websites. Not sure how much that really proves - except what lots their test rifle(s) preferred.
Pat-inCO said:
The inch low is a matter of sight adjustment, but the group size is another matter altogether. :wink:
I have more than one .22 rifle, and see differences in ammo preference between them.
Cost/reward. If I'm hunting squirrels (people do that) a box of 50 will last a year or two. If I'm teaching a kid to shoot that's a different world. That's why I've accumulated 30 boxes over the years.
Quarterbore
Blackhawk
Cheap bulk pack ammo has far more duds than better ammo too. I don’t use cheap bulk ammo for matches because it is less accurate and too meany dead rounds.
Pat-inCO
Hawkeye
Pray tell . . . . . If it is working for MY Winchester,Ale-8(1) said:
WHY would I readjust for ten rounds of Federal?
I shoot 22 benchrest and even the most expensive ammo will shoot different in different guns i was having scope issues one day a decided to save my good stuff and play with some old Remington standard velocity target that i had and after fixing the scope issue i found that the Remington target was almost as good as the $16 a box Eley as far as the point of impact change even the expensive ammo will change velocity between lots also different coatings like wax or being copper washed will make a difference
Gramps
Gramps
Montelores
Buckeye
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2009
- Messages
- 1,345
Pat-inCO said:
Just a guess, but you might be missing the point here.
Monty
As stated, it all comes down to your gun and its ammo preference.
Back in the 80's I tested ammo in my 14" T/C Contender. I shot everything I could get my hands on from high dollar to bulk pack. About 15 different brands, types. (Tenex, RWS target, RWS rifle, CCI green tag, Mini Mag, WW super X , WW Wildcats, RP target, RP bulk off the top pf my head) Most all shot under an inch at 50 yards. (this is from memory now so it's ballpark, but doesn't change the point) The best was like 5/8" (Eley of some variant), of course some brands were out in the 1.5" range, but the kicker was Remington Golden Bullets (in the pint milk cartons) shot dang near as good at 3/4". So I noted the lot # and bought all K mart had.
Would that test repeat today? I doubt it. R-P GB's are now known for issues. But it goes to show you can't tell until you test.
Back in the 80's I tested ammo in my 14" T/C Contender. I shot everything I could get my hands on from high dollar to bulk pack. About 15 different brands, types. (Tenex, RWS target, RWS rifle, CCI green tag, Mini Mag, WW super X , WW Wildcats, RP target, RP bulk off the top pf my head) Most all shot under an inch at 50 yards. (this is from memory now so it's ballpark, but doesn't change the point) The best was like 5/8" (Eley of some variant), of course some brands were out in the 1.5" range, but the kicker was Remington Golden Bullets (in the pint milk cartons) shot dang near as good at 3/4". So I noted the lot # and bought all K mart had.
Would that test repeat today? I doubt it. R-P GB's are now known for issues. But it goes to show you can't tell until you test.
What gets me is that at least once/twice a month on every rimfire forum, some newbie/tyro with new rifle/handgun asks which ammo is the most accurate for their particular firearm. Sometimes the newbie/tyro gets Snake45’s good advice(every gun is a law/rule unto itself) and a lot/most of the time the almost useless reply advice is a different brand/bullet type/bullet weight for each of the responders.
For any given gun, remember that in addition to brand to brand performance variation, there is also lot to lot variation, and variation within a given lot.
On a somewhat related topic, I recently had a run of a few hundred mini-mags with several audibly underpowered rounds and one so underpowered I thought it was a dud. Only when I saw the hole in the target (about a foot low at 10 yards) did I realize it wasn't a dud. In decades of mini-mag use, I have never experienced mini-mags this bad. Conversely, I have been running a few hundred old Rem GBs through my revolvers to use them up. Their performance has been very consistent. I would not have predicted these events.
Jim
On a somewhat related topic, I recently had a run of a few hundred mini-mags with several audibly underpowered rounds and one so underpowered I thought it was a dud. Only when I saw the hole in the target (about a foot low at 10 yards) did I realize it wasn't a dud. In decades of mini-mag use, I have never experienced mini-mags this bad. Conversely, I have been running a few hundred old Rem GBs through my revolvers to use them up. Their performance has been very consistent. I would not have predicted these events.
Jim
VERY interesting! I don't have extensive experience with MiniMags--only a few hundred rounds, maybe into low four digits--but I never experienced anything like that, and only one "dud" that fired with a second strike.jimd441 said:
Rem GBs of the last decade or so are another story. I've recorded at least FOUR different noise levels for them out of the same box. Amazingly, this doesn't seem to affect the accuracy, at least out to 50 yards. They're are the favorite load of one of my rifles. :shock:
Snake45 - I know what you mean about the different noise levels of Rem GBs. Regarding accuracy, I really can't tell because for about the last 10 years or so I have been shooting them from revolvers, and I attribute any inconsistenty of shot placement to yours truly. The dud rate I have experienced (until recently as described above) has been excessive, I would guess 2% or maybe more. Other ammo has performed well in the same guns so the issue is not light strikes.
Jim
Jim
SGW Gunsmith
Blackhawk
I shoot a LOT of .22 rimfire on my range in back of my shop. And I'll buy and try, any .22 rimfire ammunition I feel the urge to try, even ELEY 10-X. I do it for my curiosity and no one else's, I just feel the need to know. Most all of my first phase of testing .22 ammunition begins at 35 meters, and if things look good, I'll go back from there, sometime even to 100 yards.
Here's just one example of a test shooting I did with THREE (3) different Lot #'s of Norma TAC-22 from a CZ 455 FS rifle:
The CZ 455 FS is by no means a "target" rifle and the optic setting was not changed 1-click in either direction.
Here are two groups shot just yesterday from a CZ 457 MTR .22 rifle at the same distance target stand. 5 shot groups:
The left group was shot with RWS R100, what could be considered a premium ammunition, the group on the right was shot with ELEY Target .22 rimfire, same rifle, same distance. Cost of those rounds is around ¾'s as much as the RWS.
The conclusions are there. Better mostly means a bit more costly, but in the long run, it involves what you want as an end result achievement. And, different lot numbers doesn't always mean that accuracy will be affected drastically.
The ONLY way to see how any .22 rimfire rifle will shoot with any .22 rimfire firearm, is to buy some and then shoot in your rifle of interest to see what it actually does.
Here's just one example of a test shooting I did with THREE (3) different Lot #'s of Norma TAC-22 from a CZ 455 FS rifle:
The CZ 455 FS is by no means a "target" rifle and the optic setting was not changed 1-click in either direction.
Here are two groups shot just yesterday from a CZ 457 MTR .22 rifle at the same distance target stand. 5 shot groups:
The left group was shot with RWS R100, what could be considered a premium ammunition, the group on the right was shot with ELEY Target .22 rimfire, same rifle, same distance. Cost of those rounds is around ¾'s as much as the RWS.
The conclusions are there. Better mostly means a bit more costly, but in the long run, it involves what you want as an end result achievement. And, different lot numbers doesn't always mean that accuracy will be affected drastically.
The ONLY way to see how any .22 rimfire rifle will shoot with any .22 rimfire firearm, is to buy some and then shoot in your rifle of interest to see what it actually does.
AzShooter1
Single-Sixer
Depending on your needs, is the more expensive ammo better? Wolf ME Eley primed shoots the tightest groups out of my Black Mamba and if I were a bullseye shooter that is what I would go with.
I primarily shoot Steel Challenge, so MOA isn't as important as Minute Of Target which can be an 18 X 24 inch target at 35 yards. I shoot Blazers because they shoot better than most of the more expensive ammo ( out of my guns ).
No matter what you do each .22 is an entity in itself and you have to test a bunch of ammo out of your own gun.
Also, I'm cheap.
I primarily shoot Steel Challenge, so MOA isn't as important as Minute Of Target which can be an 18 X 24 inch target at 35 yards. I shoot Blazers because they shoot better than most of the more expensive ammo ( out of my guns ).
No matter what you do each .22 is an entity in itself and you have to test a bunch of ammo out of your own gun.
Also, I'm cheap.
SGW Gunsmith
Blackhawk
Oh boy! Another Steven Spielberg wanna-be. If anyone thinks that any specific make/brand of .22 rimfire ammunition is too costly............don't buy the dang stuff.
Anybody think that the biathlon shooters at the Olympics are shooting CCI Blazers, or Remington Thunderbolts? Heck no, they're shooting the best .22 rimfire they can get, like ELEY Biathlon or Lapua high octane stuff.
I will buy some of the high dollar .22 rimfire ammunition now and then, if only to see how well it shoots in my CZ 457 MTR:
The target on the left was shot with SK Rifle Match, the one on the right, with ELEY Target, yellow box. Do I get groups like the one on the left with that rifle/ammunition combination ALL the time at 35 meters. Heck no! But that rifle and ammunition combination does right well when shooting my "Tack Driver Target" at 35 meters:
There's a couple of "awsh!ts" there, but I'm to blame for those, and by the way, the diameter of those orange dots are the very same as a thumb-tack, 3/8 ths inch.
Anybody think that the biathlon shooters at the Olympics are shooting CCI Blazers, or Remington Thunderbolts? Heck no, they're shooting the best .22 rimfire they can get, like ELEY Biathlon or Lapua high octane stuff.
I will buy some of the high dollar .22 rimfire ammunition now and then, if only to see how well it shoots in my CZ 457 MTR:
The target on the left was shot with SK Rifle Match, the one on the right, with ELEY Target, yellow box. Do I get groups like the one on the left with that rifle/ammunition combination ALL the time at 35 meters. Heck no! But that rifle and ammunition combination does right well when shooting my "Tack Driver Target" at 35 meters:
There's a couple of "awsh!ts" there, but I'm to blame for those, and by the way, the diameter of those orange dots are the very same as a thumb-tack, 3/8 ths inch.
Pat-inCO
Hawkeye
Found the link to the "Tack Driver Challenge" target. 3/8ths inch "tacks"
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=462689
That also has the userid to use AND the password for access. :wink:
P.S. It's a PDF.
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=462689
That also has the userid to use AND the password for access. :wink:
P.S. It's a PDF.
22lr ELEY Premium Ammo (Explained)
Pursuit of Accuracy
Mar 25
00:00 - INTRO
01:10 - WHATS THE DIFFERENCE
02:20 - HOW IT'S TESTED
02:57 - COMMON MISTAKES
05:13 - 100 YARD SHOOTING (ELEY TENEX)
06:59 - 100 YARD SHOOTING (ELEY TEAM)
08:26 - POSITIONAL SHOOTING (ELEY TEAM)
09:04 - WRAP IT UP
Pursuit of Accuracy
Mar 25
00:00 - INTRO
01:10 - WHATS THE DIFFERENCE
02:20 - HOW IT'S TESTED
02:57 - COMMON MISTAKES
05:13 - 100 YARD SHOOTING (ELEY TENEX)
06:59 - 100 YARD SHOOTING (ELEY TEAM)
08:26 - POSITIONAL SHOOTING (ELEY TEAM)
09:04 - WRAP IT UP
Simmonsburg
Single-Sixer
Generally the Wolf Match is pretty accurate stuff compared to bulk pack in my guns, but it's not a rule since you'll find guns that may shoot into one hole with cheap stuff and spray all over with some expensive stuff.
Generally though, the ammo that's loaded most consistent will cost more, and has the greatest likelihood of being more accurate, and usually will be the 36-40gr stuff.
Generally though, the ammo that's loaded most consistent will cost more, and has the greatest likelihood of being more accurate, and usually will be the 36-40gr stuff.
