Important information on the Ruger SP101 327 Federal.

[surveyor47]

It could also be a result of the new Ruger lean model instituted a year or two ago. The policy that Ruger now has of only producing a enough of any part to complete a set number of firearms, in attempts to eliminate overstock.
Charlie

Now that is an answer that seems to make sence. If the company is only producing parts for complete guns, then there are no spare parts for repair. I think that we have all known a rock headed manager or two who might make a decision like that.

 

[RonS]

Don't blame the managers, production managers love inventory, this is usually a beancounter issue. The accounting rules changed several years ago and companies take a bad hit to the bottom line for any kind of inventory. When business slows down and sales drop, then inventory becomes a real killer since it grows even if you don't have a single dollar more of inventory than you did before because inventory is judged as a percentage of sales. The inventory you had when sales were high becomes huge when sales drop off.

Where I work we machine parts from almost any metal other than magnesium or DU. We buy the common stuff on a regular basis but have to bid the exotic stuff like Hasteloy or Incoloy. The price goes through the roof when you buy small amounts, if we would buy a mill run and let is sit till we use it we could cut the price per pound by 75% or more but we can't do it, we only buy enough for the job because of inventory rules.

I read recently that Bill didn't like CNCs much, he knew that skilled employees using dedicated manual machines could do as good a job as long as the process was properly engineered. I think the new team is moving toward more CNC equipment and we are seeing some learning curve. It is no different than any person in any job. If you make a radical change in how someone does their job then you are going to have human errors crop up and you are also going to find out that some things that you thought you had nailed down in the new process throw you a curve ball when it comes time to go to full production.

 

[RonS]

The thing that bothers me most is that Ruger did not want the gun back in their hands ASAP. They as much as said it may not be safe but they are leaving it in the field?! They are so paranoid about some things and now they just blow this off? If I were Ruger I would offer a loaner, or any Ruger product in stock (within reason) or a check to get that gun back in my hands so I could examine it and know that it isn't being shot.

If there is any way you can post pictures or get measurements or both it would really be interesting.

 

[Cordite]

The machine tools used to cut the cylinder chambers could be worn out..causing the cutters to wobble. The amount of this wobble would depend on the pressure used by the tool holder, chip buildup, coolant flow, cutter sharpness, etc. When the cutter wobbles it would not cause surface defects but definitely would cut a larger than standard hole. The operator may not be able to tell by watching the machine run that something is wrong. An inside micrometer would easily spot the problem though.

Maybe the cylinder doesn't fit the CNC machine very well and needs a redesign to enable accurate manufaturing. It is also possible IMHO that the cylinder story is a smokesceen for poor manufacturing methods.

How does this sort of thing get by the Quality dept at Ruger? Or a more scary thought...maybe the Quality dept *is* finding these issues and is being told by management to ship it anyway.

 

[DGW1949]

Contrary to popular opinion, CNC machining aint the end-all, do-all that it is cracked up to be.
All machinery is subject to things like tool wear, fixture wear, chuck wear, way wear, differences in coolants and coolant flow, vibrations, incorrect leveling...and on and on.
And FWIW, it aint uncommon at all to bore, ream or drill more than one hole using the same set-ups....and end-up with slight differences in hole-size.
In fact, if you're after absolute uniformity, it's probably best to drill the dern hole a bit undersized and the finish it with a hand reamer.....sure is slow though.

As far as not having guns to ship or parts to fix a certain gun....I aint surprized at all. Ruger has long been known to anounce a new gun way before they were ready to fill a lot of orders.
On top of that, it is said that Ruger makes guns in "batches"....as in, they'll make a bunch of a couple of models and then switch production to other models....mostly decided-on by what particular model has the most pending orders.
Almost nobody builds up inventory these days....They all been Ki-zaned and/or Five-S'd.

This aint a slam on Ruger. Most manufactures operate that way.

DGW

 

[rmbrad]

I know that this is once again second hand information. I think that I reported on this back when it origianlly took place, but I can't locate these posts. I help teach a CCW class with a local LEO. This guy bought a new SP=101 in .327 mag. I was on the range with him when he first fired it. The first cylinder full would not extract. 3 or the cases fell out of the cylinder. I was able to remove one case with my pocket knife, and had to knock the other 2 cases out with a range rod. The last 2 cases were split down their length. I advised the owner not to shoot it again until it was checked out, but he fired another cylinder full. This time there wasn't a problem. The next 2 cylinders full had the same problem as the first. He took the gun to a local Gunsmith, and was told to contact Ruger. Ruger advised that he needed to send the gun back to them for repair, which the owner did. Several weeks after sending the gun to Ruger, the owner reported to me that Ruger had discovered an "issue" with the cylinder. They further advised him that it would be at least 5 months before they would have parts available for the repair. They gave him the option of waiting for his gun to be repaired, or having it replaced with another SP-101 in a different caliber. I was not present for these conversations, and did not ask how Ruger replaced the old gun, but 2 weeks ago he was on the range with a new SP-101 in .357 Mag.

I am not here to knock Ruger, I am a big fan of their products. When this first happened with this new SP-101, I came here to see if anyone had heard of this happening, and what the problem might be with the gun. I came back to report the outcome with this particular gun.

 

[chet15]

Obviously, a recall would be two steps back for the company. But, its the right thing to do!!
Wonder how Ruger got proofloads through those guns and past inspection? Somebody had to know!! And I'm willing to bet a higher up has more at interest (shareholders and $) than a quality product!!
They need to get back to the basics. WBR was no fool, he knew how to make things work there. Just seems now that there is a certain arrogance with the newbies that won't allow them to put quality ahead of their bottom line.
Well, their bottom line means customers...so where's the "root" of the issue???
Chet15

 

[mcumpston]

"How the hell do you NOT drill/machine the six chambers on a brand new gun's cylinder the same..."

A good question. It seems that this would never happen because it would take a lot of extra effort to bore all the chambers or some of the chambers different. Neverthelless it does happen. I had a disgusted dealer show me a super redhawk with the same problem. Fired cases from some of the chambers would drop into the oversized chmagrs and the ones from the oversized chamgers could not be pounded into the smaller ones. It could be that they set up some sort of friction clutch reamer with separate reamers for each of the chambers or two or more on the same boring fixture. They could index the cylinder on a jig and then turn the cylinder to align the pilot holes and completer the reaming job.It would be simple to use reamers of different sixes to mess things up in fine style.
Human ingenuity is equal to the task of screwing up anything.

 

[chet15]

Revolver cylinders are drilled 3 at a time (every other hole), then when done, the cylinder is rotated one position and the other three are drilled. So, one or more bits and/or reamers are not the same size.
Chet15

 

[mcumpston]

That confirms my guess. Thats all it was coming from a time I used to thread set screw holes on lawn more pulleys.
Given that metholology, it woud seem easy to screw up a whole mess of revolver cylinders in short order.

 

[22/45 Fan]

My question still stands though ... How is it POSSIBLE for that to happen ?

REV

I expect all six chambers in the cylinders are drilled simultaneously on a CNC machine using six different drill bits in one pass. If one or more of these bits were out of spec, it's easy to have different size chambers in the same cylinder.

 

[mjzman]

The part that I don't get though- is that Ruger has said that the cylinder has to be re-designed. Which is what seems to be taking some time. If it was a problem with bad or out of size drill bits, wouldn't it be a simple task to just pull the bad ones out of the machine and replace with good ones? That would seem to be a one-day job.

I'm just speculating here, but could it be that 6 chambers in that cylinder left walls that were too thin given the relatively high pressures of the .327 cartridge? Could some chambers be expanding with firing? Perhaps even with the proof rounds since some owners have seen oversize chambers in new guns.

 

[donutsrule]

I'm just speculating here, but could it be that 6 chambers in that cylinder left walls that were too thin given the relatively high pressures of the .327 cartridge? Could some chambers be expanding with firing? Perhaps even with the proof rounds since some owners have seen oversize chambers in new guns.

Could be more than one thing even if the cylinder metal is deforming. Could be [design] not enough metal, could be [execution] the metal there is not performing as it should (heat treat problems?).

I'm sure by now Ruger knows whether the cylinders go out of spec before or after firing, I'm not sure we do though. :?

 

[countryboy]

Well, Ruger called me and said they are shipping my SP101 357 back to me on monday. I hope its fixed.

 

[Tom M]

I bought a .327 on Thursday. Took it to the range on Friday, and had bulged cases on all 3 calibers of ammo. Called Ruger, and they denied any knowledge of a problem, but offered to have UPS pick it up at their expense for an evaluation. I told them in my service request letter that if they didn't repair/replace the gun within 30 days, I wanted a refund. We'll see what transpires.

 

[Cordite]

Not too long ago I held a SP-101 in .327 at Double Action (LGS in Madison Heights, MI). Didn't have the coin or I would have bought it then. Glad now that I didn't given everyone's issues with the .327.

Hopefully Ruger has their act together on the replacement cylinders by now so they can return your .327 to you ASAP.

I still do want the .327! I'll wait for Ruger to begin production with the revised cylinders.

 

[Geechie]

I've been lurking on the forum for a while. Have been mostly a semi-auto fan but picked up the .327 last December as my first revolver. I actually purchased it as a nightstand gun for my wife. The 327 is an interesting and versatile platform, but thanks to this forum, I've discovered why it's so hard to eject spent casings.

After contacting Ruger Support, they indicated they would repair or replace with a different caliber. Now I have the dillemna of deciding to get the 327 repaired based on my desire to have it in case my wife ever needs it in an HD situation OR have Ruger replace it with a 357. I am torn on this as I do not have a 357 in my collection and I am wondering if I would be better of with the 357 platform and have 38 spl loads for my wife for HD. I was looking forward to having her work her way up from 32SW, 32HR Mag, then the 327 round. It sure is a sweet round to shoot.

Has anyone had the 327 cylinder repair done? Was it repaired to your satisfaction and how long?

Thanks

 

[the 41 Magnum Man]

A newbie question about this revolver... Could someone please tell me how long it takes before the cylinder timing gets off in this revolver, assuming I shoot about 100 rounds a month. Am planning to take it overseas where there are no precision repair facilities. I'll use it the US for atleast a year to resolve any issues before taking it overseas.

Thanks,
Ram

In most quality revolvers, an individual would need to fire several thousand rounds per month for years b4 the timing crapped out. With the problems involved with the SP's, I wouldn't take one overseas. I would get a different weapon.

 

[the 41 Magnum Man]

I had a problem with stuck and expanded cases. I was shooting American Eagle 100 gr. jsp. Since then I have noticed that those rounds are not as potent as the first 50 rnds. I bought. I also started reloading as it is alot cheaper. I was using 4 grns. hogden titegroup with a 100grn. Lrn cast bullet and a win. mag primer. I thought the powder was extremely dirty and smokey. I am now trying 5grns. win. 231 with a hornandy 85 grn. jhp and a win . mag primer. It's alot cleaner and alot more bark. With these load's I have not had any stuck or over expanded cases.I now have close to 1000 rnds. through my gun. YOU CAN GET RELOADING INFO FROM THE HOGDEN WEBSITE AND IT WILL LIST THE DIFFERENT POWDERS. I hope that helps

WHY, in heaven's name, are you using magnum primers for only 4-5 grains of powder. You are simply driving up pressures while wasting the un-needed power of the Mag primer. Standard small primers will do the job without any problem; and, regardless of the quantity of powder used in the .327, it will never call for/or need the mag primer. Save them for the .357 used with heavy loads.

This reminds me of a time when I was in the gun business back in the 90's that Ruger announced a new rifle on the Mini-30 slightly enlarged to take the .308 Win. There were actually a few make but the recall came rather quickly and it died shortly after birth. :shock:

 

[IaDC]

Interesting posts. I realize this is in regards to the SP101 in .327 but I've had the same thing happen to a NIB Rossi .357 2" I bought in March. I have one chamber that sticks so tight I thought the casing was in there for good. When I stick the case back in the sides are scratched from the chamber walls and it took tremendous pushing to get it in the chamber. I thought that meant the chamber is too small. I see now it means the case is bulged. No, I don't reload. I shot 75 rounds through it and got worried. I guess I should have quit after 10. What an interesting forum. I'll call Rossi tomorrow and I doubt they'll offer a new gun.