Important information on the Ruger SP101 327 Federal.

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Leucoandro

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So, after I thought about the issues I had with my SP101 in 327 Federal, I asked my father to call Ruger to ask if it might be an ammo issue, or handgun issue. (I recently PCS'd, so have limited Phone Service).....

The issue was very sticky extraction, and case bases that expanded well beyond normal....It seemed to me because of evidence of carbon on the side of the case, and the fact that some cases in different chambers flared more than others, that it was an issue with Ruger making some of the chambers too big, and some close to the right size...Based on Ruger's Response, there might be more to it...

If you do not have the sticky extraction, powder burns on the side of the case, and extremely expanded cases near the base, then you should be fine....


Here is what my Father told me about the conversation with Ruger....

The lady said there are issues with that revolver. She said that there are no cylinders in stock now. She said I could wait and call back every now and then to see when a new cylinder might be available. This may be a long time.

She also said we can send the revolver back and get a refund for what you paid, or we can send the revolver back and get another revolver in a different caliber.

She said that the sticky extraction indicated that the revolver is dangerous.


Charlie
 

revhigh

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Leucoandro":2pdp48gj said:
She also said we can send the revolver back and get a refund for what you paid, or we can send the revolver back and get another revolver in a different caliber.

WOW !! I don't think I've ever heard of Ruger doing that before ... they must really want those guns back. I'd jump all over that deal ASAP if I was having problems with mine. It might not last long.

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I_Like_Pie

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From the grapevine...they have done a similar deal with people calling in about problems with their 10/22magnum guns.

I would take them up on their offer...if you are not a reloader who has bought all the dies and stuff for the .327 you have nothing to lose.
 

nn

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Leucoandro:
So was your issue with all ammo, by that I mean .32 S&W and .32 H&R as well?
 

revhigh

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nn":jgkmeqqq said:
Leucoandro:
So was your issue with all ammo, by that I mean .32 S&W and .32 H&R as well?

I'd guess it was just the hot stuff ... 327 Fed
 

nn

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revhigh:
I suppose, I had trouble getting the fired .327 cases out once; but, that was after I had shot a bunch or .32S&W long LRN. After cleaning the lead out of the chambers and using other ammo it has not been a problem.
 

frogger

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I'd find out if the refund they are offering is for MSRP or what you actually paid for it. If MSRP, I'd take it. If it was just a refund of the street price you paid, I'd just have them send me one in .357 Magnum.
 

Leucoandro

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I have only shot factory Federal 110gr 327 bullets through the revolver.

Based on what the revolver is doing, it seems that Ruger did not size all of the chambers the same...It appears that 1 chamber is sized correctly, 2 chambers are slightly oversized, and 3 chambers are grossly oversized.

This is evident by the sticky extraction (there is no carbon fowling from shorter rounds like 32 S&W Long or 32 H&R), and the carbon indicating blowback to the buldge.

I have not tried 32 H&R in the revolver, but I would suspect that as long as it generates enough pressure to expand the case wall, that it will have the same problem.

I can tell that some are oversized and others are not, because some cases will fit back into the chambers they came out of, while others will not....Some of the cases have a large buldge at the bottom third of the case, and will not go back into the chamber they had just come out of....

I could exchange the 327 for a 357, but I already have one in 357, so that really does me no good....If they offered to exchange it for a GP100, then I would be tempted.

It just amazes me that Ruger let so many of these revolvers out on the market that, in the words of the Ruger Rep., are dangerous, without so much as an announcement to the public about the issue.

I am also amazed that Ruger did not take my fathers information, for a recall, so they could mail him a container to return the revovler, when they produced more cylinders (hopefully in spec this time).

Anyways, I posted this because based on what Ruger said, (and the fact that they have no 327 cylinders, and it could be a very long time before they make more), it appears to be a common problem with the 327 Chambered SP101's.

I just wanted to let anyone else out there with SP101's in 327 Federal know that Ruger said these revolvers are dangerous to shoot if they have sticky extraction.


Charlie
 

SargeMO

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frogger":205h781i said:
I'd find out if the refund they are offering is for MSRP or what you actually paid for it. If MSRP, I'd take it. If it was just a refund of the street price you paid, I'd just have them send me one in .357 Magnum.

'Actual price on the receipt' in my experience- which is only fair.
 

revhigh

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frogger":25wvfwp2 said:
I'd find out if the refund they are offering is for MSRP or what you actually paid for it. If MSRP, I'd take it. If it was just a refund of the street price you paid, I'd just have them send me one in .357 Magnum.

I can guarantee you that they won't pay a penny more than what you paid. Anything else wouldn't make sense, would it ?? I second the idea of a 357 SP, or if you don't already have one, a 4 inch SS GP. I wonder how they'd figure out the difference if you wanted to get a different gun, like a GP, BH, RH, etc. Maybe what you paid + the difference of MSRP's ?? That wouldn't really be a good deal, though, because you'd be losing the discount on the difference.

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AzRebel

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I would think they'll only offer an exchange for another SP-101 in a different chambering.

But, some things I'm thinking about here...

If they didn't offer to exchange it for another SP-101 in .327 Federal, does that mean they're not making them any more?

If they said it could be a long time before they have a new cylinder for that gun, does that mean they aren't making those any more, too?

This could indicate a serious hit to those who already own guns thus chambered, and are expecting ammo (and eventually empty brass) to be offered in the future at a reasonable cost, or at all if there isn't enough demand for it for those firearms already produced.

They could always shoot the shorter cartridges, but that'd be like owning a .357 mag and only being able to buy ammo in .38 special.

Daryl
 

revhigh

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Leucoandro":nudaqfcy said:
Based on what the revolver is doing, it seems that Ruger did not size all of the chambers the same...It appears that 1 chamber is sized correctly, 2 chambers are slightly oversized, and 3 chambers are grossly oversized.

For those machinists on the forum ... How the hell do you NOT drill/machine the six chambers on a brand new gun's cylinder the same ??? Did they use different sized bits to drill the holes (if done at the same time) ?? If they're drilled/machined one at a time, then it would be the SAME bit doing the machining, so how would they not be the SAME ??

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delleighmy

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I would not put to much stock in what the Ruger rep had to say about the sticky extraction. I would think that any ruger representative when asked about a defect in a gun and then asked is it okay to shoot will automatically default to the phrase "Dont shoot it". The fact that there are no cylinders available tells me that Ruger is probably out because of increased demand for the pistol as a whole.. I think it is great that Ruger offers to replace your gun. Take them up on it and get a caliber you like. My father has the sp101 in 327 magnum and loves to shoot it and has probably over 1500 rounds through it by now. I know this because I reloaded most of them. Not one problem with the gun. this is the first time I have read a post that someone had problems with the gun. Maybe I missed one though. My point is that up till recently you can't hardly find this gun. Most everyone who owns one loves them. And the gun is mass manufactured so someone occasionally will get one with defects. Good luck on your new pistol.
 

revhigh

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My question still stands though ... How is it POSSIBLE for that to happen ?

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delleighmy

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In another topic posted today someone asked if ruger investment casts or uses barstock on thier cylinders in certain models of ruger pistols. Someone more in the know like flatgate will have to answer that question but if you had a void in an investment cast cylinder then it might explain the bulged cases. Just a thought and probably wrong but without pictures of the cases or the cylinder its hard to diagnose the problem.
 

I_Like_Pie

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The SP101 uses bar-stock, not castings for their cylinder.

I too would love to hear how they were mis-bored. It is a CNC machine...that cuts the holes. It could have been an error from the get go, a worn bushing that caused a variance, or who knows whatever other reason..
 

surveyor47

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I just consulted the Hodgdon reloading center, www.hodgdon.com
and found 40,000 CUP data for both the 327 and 357 magnums. Given the fact that 327 Federal cylinder walls are thicker than 357 Magnum cylinder walls and that both share the same case configuration, straight wall pistol case, I cannot think of any reason that the SP101 should have any problem with the 327 Federal whatsoever. In fact, it should be less stressful on the gun than the 357.

The question is why no cylinders are available for repair? Is this a fading caliber or is demand so high that they have no spare parts for repair? I would tend to think the latter. It may be that it is simpler for Ruger to replace the gun rather than repair under current extreme demand.
 

AzRebel

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The question is why no cylinders are available for repair? Is this a fading caliber or is demand so high that they have no spare parts for repair? I would tend to think the latter. It may be that it is simpler for Ruger to replace the gun rather than repair under current extreme demand.

If that is true, then Ruger isn't standing behind their products worth a darn. A fella buys a .327 Federal because that's what he wants. If he wanted a .357 mag, he'd have bought one. Taking the "easy" way out and trying to pacify him by offering something else is less than adequate IMO.

If I bought a .41 mag, I wouldn't want to replace it with a .44 mag or .45 Colt. If I bought a .45 Colt, I wouldn't want to replace it with a .44 mag or .41 mag. They sold the man a defective gun; they need to make it right IMO. If they're still producing that firearm, they owe him a full repair of his firearm or a replacement with the same gun he has.

If they're not making it any more, then that might be impossible. In that case, I can accept the idea of a refund or replacement with another chambering. Refusing to replace/repair his current firearm simply because demand is too high is pretty much the same as selling his gun to someone else, and giving him something that he didn't want in the first place. That's unacceptable service IMO.

I'm glad it's not me in the situation, because I'd be mighty unhappy if I was.

Daryl
 

Leucoandro

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I am trying to get my father to send me a picture of one of the bulged cases.

I actually missed the bulge on the cases at first (because I was not looking for that), but at the house I decided, because of the sticky extraction, to try to put the cases back into the chambers. That is when I noticed the bulge. Many of the buldges were so great that the cases would not fit back into any of the chambers. If I exerted a little bit of force, the chamber would actually start to cut into the brass. I then decided to look at the cases. That is when I noticed the case flared out just above the base, for about 1/3 of the length of the case, then the case narrowed back down to what I would expect a fired case to look like.

As to the cylinders being out of stock. I have no answer to that. It could be that they have an issue with them, and are retooling. This might be the case, as I talked to my father yesterday, and he said it sounded like my problem was not uncommon, and that Ruger had recieved several calls on it. It could also be a result of the new Ruger lean model instituted a year or two ago. The policy that Ruger now has of only producing a enough of any part to complete a set number of firearms, in attempts to eliminate overstock.

I have to agree, if I had wanted a 357, I would have bought one. I actually did buy one in 357 around 8 years ago, and I still have it, so I have no need for another 357 SP101.

As to demand for the 327 Federal. Ruger, S&W, Taurus and Charter Arms all sell 327 Federals now, so there must be some demand for them.

As my SP101 in 357 is my primary carry firearm, and I did not buy the 327 Federal to replace it for that purpose. I am thinking that I will wait for Ruger to produce more 327 Cylinders. I really think that the 327 Federal is a neat bullet. I also have 150 rounds of new Federal 110gr bullets, reloading dies, and 115gr lead cast bullets for it (I have not started reloading for it yet though).

The thing that still surprises me is that Ruger did not take down Name and Contact information so they could call me when they have the cylinder back in stock, instead I am supposed to call them to check to see if they have them back in stock every couple weeks.


Charlie
 

RonS

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Cutting tools can load up with chips and cut oversized, but usually you see a change in surface finish when that happens, the finish is rough and torn looking. The thing that worries me is the OP saying that he can not put the cases back in the chambers they just came out of. Brass cases usually expand and cling to the chamber wall and then kind of spring back down in size when the pressure is off. Sticky extraction plus a case that is larger than the chamber would worry me. I can't imagine how a cylinder could do that unless it is stretching radially and allowing the case to expand and then springing back down. If that were happening then the case would be swelled, the chamber would be holding it tightly and the case would then expand when removed from the chamber. If you have a caliper or pair of mics, could you see if the case measures the same diameter when you rotate it or if it is egg shaped? If it is egg shaped then I think the cylinder is stretching and I would not fire the gun again. (My thinking here is that the stretch should happen toward the outside of the cylinder, where there is the least material. Think of all the exploded KB cylinders you have seen in forums, the failure is toward the outside.)

I would take the offer of my money back.

I hope we see some feedback on this issue because it reminds me too much of the peening issue on the SR9 pistols. An obvious engineering/metalurgy problem that was discovered in the field by users; and then was never heard of again.
 
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