How to solve unintentional doubling ?

[SR_Guy]

I've got an SR1911 and an SR45 among other guns. After firing mostly the SR45 in the past year (trying to figure out what factory or reloaded ammo it likes), I recently went back to the 1911. To my great dismay, I found that I am now firing unintentional double-taps. Not always but more often than I'm comfortable with. I've tried with other 1911s (my girlfriend's SR1911, a rented S&W and Springfield, a friend's Para) and got the same results with all but the last one, which had a longer trigger pull.

With multiple guns tested, as well as varying ammo, I am pretty much convinced it's somehow my fault. I figure I need to retrain myself, and I'm thinking of using a live round followed by a snap cap for that (to see if the hammer falls on the snap cap). The big question is: what should I be working on and how ? I've read that a loose grip might allow the gun to move enough to cause an unintentional second trigger pull after recoil. At the same time, other opinions state that a "death grip" (tightening the fist, including trigger finger, to try and control the recoiling handgun) might be causing that.

Has anybody here successfully fought this problem ? If so, what did you find that worked for you ?

I'm also curious why I'm only seeing it with 1911s but not on my other polymer SRs. Could it be the single action compared to the striker mechanism ? Am I doing the same thing but the latter needs more effort to fully cock and doesn't go off ?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

[Snake45]

First place to look on a "doubling" 1911 is a broken or weakened or perhaps dirt-fouled leaf on the sear spring.

 

[golferboy426]

1911 and striker fired guns have a way different trigger feel. Tough to switch back & forth

 

[SR_Guy]

First place to look on a "doubling" 1911 is a broken or weakened or perhaps dirt-fouled leaf on the sear spring.

My first reaction was to sideline my gun until I could call Ruger to have it checked. But after having the same problem on other 1911s it seemed less likely to be a mechanical problem and more likely that it was me (the only thing in common). I might yet call Ruger for piece of mind. Thanks for the input.

 

[Mike J]

Is there someone else you could get to shoot the pistol to see if the same thing happens with them. If it doesn't maybe you should get someone to watch you shoot & see if they can spot what you or doing. That or try shooting it like a DA revolver & let the trigger go all the way forward as soon as the shot breaks.

 

[SR_Guy]

Is there someone else you could get to shoot the pistol to see if the same thing happens with them.

My friend tried the rented Springfield too, while a range officer tested to rented S&W (it was the same night at a range near my friend's place). Neither one of them had the same issue.

If it doesn't maybe you should get someone to watch you shoot & see if they can spot what you or doing.

The range where I shoot is usually desert (kinda nice but not helping me in this case). I might be able to talk somebody into going with me. Thanks for the suggestion.

The aforementioned RO didn't watch me (it never occurred to me to ask) but his opinion was that I was allowing the gun to move in my hand and the trigger to reset too soon and his explanation sounded like bump-firing.

That or try shooting it like a DA revolver & let the trigger go all the way forward as soon as the shot breaks.

That's interesting. I don't have any experience with revolvers but so far my tendency with guns would be to keep the trigger all the way back for follow-through. But if I'm not doing it right, this conscious effort may be causing me to squeeze the trigger again.

Maybe I'm over-thinking it and I do need to get back out there with somebody who can watch.

 

[DGW1949]

First place to look on a "doubling" 1911 is a broken or weakened or perhaps dirt-fouled leaf on the sear spring.

I'll second that.
Assuming the gun is up to spec though, I'd be working on my grip, trigger finger and "follow through".

DGW

 

[bigboredad]

It sounds like you need to ease up just a bit on your grip. I doubt all 3 1911's have the same problem. I'd look at your grip is tight or do you hold loosely? Do you release your trigger til it just resets or all the way forward

 

[anachronism]

It kind of sounds like a ferocious flinch. You may be hitting the trigger while anticipating or trying to fight recoil.

 

[WAYNO]

It kind of sounds like a ferocious flinch. You may be hitting the trigger while anticipating or trying to fight recoil.

I've seen folks unintentionally double tap my 1911's. In every case, it's been an inexperienced shooter, and I could not discover what they do different to cause it. It seemed to be a flinch reaction to me.

And that's not to say the OP is inexperienced. I'm just sharing what I've witnessed.

WAYNO.

 

[SR_Guy]

It sounds like you need to ease up just a bit on your grip... I'd look at your grip is tight or do you hold loosely?

That's where I'm perplexed. I never gave it much thought and now I'm finding myself wondering if I need to go tighter or looser, or if it's something else entirely. I tried tighter but still had occasional issues. Maybe I need to go in the opposite direction and relax (not strangle it but not let it flop either).

Do you release your trigger til it just resets or all the way forward

When everything's under control, I release until I feel the reset and get ready for another shot. I don't release fully until the magazine is empty or I go back to the ready position, at which point my finger goes back to rest along the frame/slide.

 

[Mike J]

I might be wrong but I think this is a trigger control issue. What I think is if your SR45 has more slack in the trigger than your SR 1911 you may be letting the trigger reset then when you try to take up slack like you would on your SR45 you trip the trigger again causing the double. Of course I could be wrong I'm not there. That was why I was suggesting shooting it like a DA revolver. If you don't let a DA revolver trigger go all the way forward before pulling it again it wont work right. At least my old Dan Wesson wont.

 

[SR_Guy]

It kind of sounds like a ferocious flinch. You may be hitting the trigger while anticipating or trying to fight recoil.

However it first started, I would concur that it is now a form of flinch, as I am now somewhat apprehensive with the 1911. I hope the live round + snap cap exercise I'm thinking about can help me recondition my mind because I should know that it's safe.

I've seen folks unintentionally double tap my 1911's. In every case, it's been an inexperienced shooter, and I could not discover what they do different to cause it. It seemed to be a flinch reaction to me.

And that's not to say the OP is inexperienced. I'm just sharing what I've witnessed.

My experience has been shorter than a lot of you (only 2 years), so no offense taken. I just hope I can learn to get over this and go back to enjoying my 1911 like I did before.

 

[SR_Guy]

I might be wrong but I think this is a trigger control issue. What I think is if your SR45 has more slack in the trigger than your SR 1911 you may be letting the trigger reset then when you try to take up slack like you would on your SR45 you trip the trigger again causing the double.

It did cross my mind that the SR45 allowed me to be complacent and get away with it. Then the 1911 is showing me I still need to work on it.

That was why I was suggesting shooting it like a DA revolver. If you don't let a DA revolver trigger go all the way forward before pulling it again it wont work right.

It would make sense that removing the trigger finger should prevent a second shot. But I thought proper follow through included continuing the trigger pull until "done". So that's what I was trying to do. Though maybe inconsistently.

 

[Mike J]

Forget about what I was posting SR I think DGW summed it up best. Sometimes I get to thinking wrong & sometimes I just don't communicate well.

I really think you are just going to have to take some time & relearn your trigger.

 

[SR_Guy]

I really think you are just going to have to take some time & relearn your trigger.

Nod. And I'm willing to do it. I was just hoping somebody had previously narrowed it down to a specific aspect to work on. At least with the snap cap idea I feel better about working on it without the risk of sending bullets into the ceiling or over the berm.

 

[FusionDave]

Yes, you really can't compare the SR45 with the 1911's, as the triggers reset differently. It does come down to trigger control, but just to rule something out, if you have a set screw in your trigger to adjust reset, make sure it is adjusted towards the face of the trigger, while you work on your issue. If you aren't concentrating on your finger position, during recoil the trigger can reset and fire again. When firing, try concentrating on holding your finger/trigger in the depressed position until the recoil cycle has completed, release and try it again. This should fix your issue and you'll get used to where your grip and finger need to be. But going back and forth between the SR and 1911 isn't doing your muscle memory any favors. Hope it wasn't too long.

 

[Rabon]

You might try keeping the trigger pressed until you decide to either shoot again (catch the reset) if not release the trigger. I think your probably trying to catch the reset out of habit.

 

[jimjc]

I`ve seen this before, it`s because the shooters grip tightens up, releases pressure, reset sets and the grip tightens again an recoil shoots the second shot. Working on consistent grip pressure will resolve this. Have the trigger set a bit heavier by a gunsmith while practicing then at some point you can have the trigger adjusted back..

 

[bigboredad]

For me I was squeezing way to tight. For some reason Ifelt it needed the same grip tension as my full loaded .475 bfr with slick grips and at the time I was shooting a lot of the .475's. Once I started thinking about what Iwas doing different during dry fire I realized my grip was a lot less. Once I eased up on my grip the double shots quit and my groups size was cut in half. Ymmv

 

[Pocketfisherman]

Go to this link, scroll down, and perform the function test for the discconnector. If it fails, call Ruger and send it back. If it works as designed, you have an issue with your grip and trigger finger control. Try adjusting your grip so you are squeezing the gun a bit between you thumb and inside edge of the base of your trigger finger leaving the end of the finger pad free to press the trigger.

 

[Coop]

You may be experiencing what is know medically as a "retention tremor" in your firing/trigger hand, which may cause you to involuntarily re-engage the trigger after shooting the first shot. It is treatable medically.

Do you have similar problems with other semi-auto firearms?

 

[SR_Guy]

Thank you all for the extra advice on things to pay attention to. I was hoping to hit the range this past week-end but didn't get to do it. I'll try to keep all this in mind when I do.

A few follow-ups below.

just to rule something out, if you have a set screw in your trigger to adjust reset, make sure it is adjusted towards the face of the trigger, while you work on your issue.

Is this the over-travel adjustment ? Set it to allow more over-travel and a longer reset ?

Go to this link, scroll down, and perform the function test for the discconnector.

Somehow I'm not seeing a link. Could you please post it again ?

"retention tremor"... treatable medically. Do you have similar problems with other semi-auto firearms?

I sure hope it doesn't come to a medical solution ! 1911s are so far the only gun type I've experienced this problem with. I don't seem to have it with the SR9c/40/45. I also tried a Beretta 92FS around the time this started and that was OK too.

 

[Pocketfisherman]

Oops, I forgot the link in my post above for the disconnector function test: http://coolgunsite.com/funcheck/function.htm

 

[Pat-inCO]

Before you go changing anything on the gun:

I had one do that to me several years ago. It was a comp gun with a
two pound trigger that was also short reset. I was working the plate
rack and hit two plates with one pull of the trigger (gun was swinging
across and I hit the right edge of one and the left edge of the next).

I had others shoot the gun with no problems, SO, I went to looking
closely at what I was doing. Turns out that I had too relaxed a grip.
The recoil of the first round set the gun far enough into my hand to
reset the trigger and when the slide went forward, you guessed it, it
fired again.

For mine, it was just take a firmer grip on the gun.
That does NOT mean try to break the grip, just tighten your grip a bit
and try again. Solved mine completely.

 

[olyinaz]

I've had it happen, and always it was when fatigue had set in and I was losing my grip. Time to take a break in my case. In your case I think you're just in need of a firmer grip (not a death grip - just think "control") and improved trigger/shot follow through. Double action or striker fired autos are less apt to exhibit this problem because they often times have long trigger reset movements necessary to get back to ready to fire. Not so the 1911. As another poster suggested, the distance it rocks in a loosely held hand is enough to reset the trigger (or move the finger away from the trigger), and then the slightest flinch or even the slide ramming home will trip it again.

It's all about control and follow through. I've seen a novice empty a full magazine on what seemed like full auto fire in an extreme case of this problem (gets your attention on the firing line), and I've read of people getting hurt as a result. :shock:

The internets is your friend - read up.