How say y'all?

[Bob Wright]

I posted on an other forum on which most of the correspondents look at the handgun only as a combat/defensive weapon, and referred to that as "para-military" shooting practice, and was taken to task for that. Sort of in defense of my position, I posted this:

Let's just agree to disagree without being disagreeable.

My take on the subject, and on which I base my opinion, is that the "sport" is lost when the target is folks, or a facsimile thereof, and the fact the shooter is shooting from cover.

Sniping, for sport I'll agree to, as long as the target is an critter, groundhog, squirrel, deer or some other game animal. A bull's eye target just represents a vital area of that critter.

Nowhere in sport shooting does it involve running from cover to cover, nor rapidity of the reload.

Having said this, this is my observation and opinion drawn from that observation. And, as for the correspondent that opined the only sport shooting involved a shotgun and clay target, that clay target is a substitute for a living bird.

My opinion is that when the target is another person, or substitute thereof, the sport is gone from the shooting.

Bob Wright

What is your opinion?

Bob Wright

 

[GunnyGene]

I posted on an other forum on which most of the correspondents look at the handgun only as a combat/defensive weapon, and referred to that as "para-military" shooting practice, and was taken to task for that. Sort of in defense of my position, I posted this:

Let's just agree to disagree without being disagreeable.

My take on the subject, and on which I base my opinion, is that the "sport" is lost when the target is folks, or a facsimile thereof, and the fact the shooter is shooting from cover.

Sniping, for sport I'll agree to, as long as the target is an critter, groundhog, squirrel, deer or some other game animal. A bull's eye target just represents a vital area of that critter.

Nowhere in sport shooting does it involve running from cover to cover, nor rapidity of the reload.

Having said this, this is my observation and opinion drawn from that observation. And, as for the correspondent that opined the only sport shooting involved a shotgun and clay target, that clay target is a substitute for a living bird.

My opinion is that when the target is another person, or substitute thereof, the sport is gone from the shooting.

Bob Wright

What is your opinion?

Bob Wright

Having done both in my life, "sport" and "other than sport" shooting, I have to agree with you.

 

[don44]

I agree with you too !

 

[stevemb]

I've spent some time and ammo furthering my combatives skills. The genre of shooting games that followed such as IDPA, and others, now are getting "gamed" as has every shooting sport/game that started out to be practice for a need. Trap, skeet, clays, are now an end unto themselves, played by many that will never hunt. The more tactical pointed shooting games have run a similar path. Envisioned as a training component they are now an entity of their own. This is why I moved onto airsoft/rubber knife full contact, both eyes open, as close to reality as we could go as civilians. We did not fool ourselves by calling it a game or sport. Play time was over.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

My opinion is the 'sport of shooting' can involve any and all shooting disciplines, weather target shooting or defensive shooting or what have you. When I target shoot I always take a few shots as if I was shooting to save my life either with a handgun or a rifle. I will use my off hand or shoot from the hip, I get off the bench and go down on one knee, something like that. I would love to have a range where I could move around and shoot.

 

[RugerHound]

I absolutely agree with Bob... I don't 'sport shoot' other than honing skills or figuring out ammo, sighting in, etc. I don't trophy hunt, nor do I sport hunt. I will hunt for food when/if its necessary, but I tend to leave life around me alone unless that life encroaches on mine.

Same with 4 legged critters!

 

[coach]

I don't see why sport shooting can't involve lifelike targets when the ultimate aim besides the game is for actual training in a life or death scenario. You never know when an actual defensive situation in your house or elsewhere may happen. Why not practice in a way that might help. Target acquisition as well as deciding when to shoot is important.

 

[stevemb]

Our Bob is ok in not being able to lable these courses/events, sports. If it is your goal to take down another human being, not really game anymore, quit playing, scoring, giving trophies. Grow up and undestand the ugly consequences. OK, Bob, it's all your fault i had to use so many big words ! Foul !

 

[coach]

A game involves points, times, etc. and real life involves more significant outcomes. No reason a sport can't be involved in training for the ultimate situation.
No reason timed events that involve realistic targets can be seen as an exercise/ sport too. Except for police and military not many of us will actually be in a shoutout with people shooting back. I think most people,at least on this forum, understand the consequences of shooting at another person or being able to protect themselves or family.

 

[Chief 101]

sport has such ambiguity connected with it these days. Every thing people do these days for recreation seems to be called a sport. The Gladiators of yesteryear and the Chess players are both considered "sports". Our Military forces have war games...I like to agree with the op but the convoluted word called sports includes just about anything...maybe even prairie dog shooting for some folks...and fishing for some folks.

 

[Mike J]

In one way I agree with you but I do understand that IDPA et al. are games. They are games designed to help people train to survive the defensive use of a firearm but they are still games.

Your post made me think about something that happened some months ago at work. I had went to a defensive shooting course with one of my sisters (her husband had gotten her a gun & encouraged her to carry it but no training). So I suggested she & I go take a class together. I told a guy named Rodney at work about her & I going & taking the class together. Some months later another younger guy at work named Mike got angry & bowed up on me because I was trying to get him to quit daydreaming & do his job. I handled it & moved on.

The next time I saw Rodney he said Mike had told him about our confrontation. Rodney said he had told him I had been going to militia classes on the weekends. I was like naw that wasn't about militia it was just about being prepared to defend yourself if neccessary. His response was yeah, & militia is about......

 

[737tdi]

Dang, y'all have me in a conundrum. An example, we qualified twice a year in my 10 years in the USMC, these qualifications were scored. Because it was scored does/did not make it a sport. It could be career ending if you fail. In the Corps shooting at humans or human targets was never a sport. It was part of your job. So in response, No combat shooting is not a sport.

With that said, many groups shoot simulated combat situations and score them and I guess that yes, that may make it a sport. Even CASS, SASS and IDPA fall into these groups. I prefer to think that it is a skill test rather then a sport, sort of like when you are sitting on your back deck shooting small silhouette varmint targets. Rapid fire at man sized targets, etc.. I may be way off base with my response but it is just my opinion.

Just because you can win a competition does not give a true indicator of how you will react in a live situation. Yes, it helps and is a good thing but until the lead is flying from the other direction you really don't know what your reaction will be. Again JMO.

Semper Fi:

Karl

 

[contender]

I think 737tdi has said it quite well.

First, the folks on the other board appear to have a different mindset. However, not seeing all they wrote, or how they reacted, I'll reserve my judgement.

Bob, in your mind, your world of shooting, you are correct. However, there are many different ways to look at shooting has it has evolved into many different venues. Please think of what is said above, and consider others as well.

From ancient times, where shooting was used only as a tool to fight wars or put food on a table, it evolved. Pretty soon, even the military & others wanted to see who was the best shot. Competitions were created. From the simple days of who can get a ball closest to the center, to modern day full blown serious competitions it has been constantly evolving.
Look at Camp Perry, one of the biggest types of mixed competition annually. Then look at all the other different types of "games" of shooting skills by all the different groups out there. All choose their types of firearms, targets, and scoring methods.
Some do include targets shaped somewhat like a human, or even a zombie.

The ideas & origins behind these specific types of games was to help train the eyes to the potential of having to shoot at a person in self defense. Games, rules & all have evolved & continue to do so.

 

[gramps]

Even animals "play" is practice for the real offense or defense of life.
gramps

 

[Fox Mike]

I have shot competition in the military as well as our required yearly qualification. If you carry then you plan to use it if needed; otherwise you are carrying a paperweight. That need may be four legged OR two. You never know, so be prepared. I remember something I was taught early in my career and that was train as if it were the real thing. Train as you would fight.

 

[737tdi]

I have shot competition in the military as well as our required yearly qualification. If you carry then you plan to use it if needed; otherwise you are carrying a paperweight. That need may be four legged OR two. You never know, so be prepared. I remember something I was taught early in my career and that was train as if it were the real thing. Train as you would fight.

Yes, you should always train. That is about as far as I can take it. Qualifications and practice are REQUIRED if you carry a gun. Just because you have a concealed carry license or even open carry. You are required by conscious to be proficient with the weapon you are carrying. There is no alternative. I can not imagine killing an innocent victim when I am trying to stop a crime. IMO this goes for police officers as well. If you can't pull your weapon and put all rounds on target then you should not be shooting. You just can not land rounds fly.

Yep, this means practice but not necessarily contests. Pool, tennis, golf, baseball pitchers, table tennis, etc.. All of these sports require muscle memory, why should it be any less when you are dealing with lethal force? If you are not shooting on a consistent basis you are taking a chance of shooting an innocent victim. IMO, shoot every week if you carry a firearm. If you can't shoot on a consistent basis then you should not carry. Most will forget things about their own firearm, where is the safety, is there a round in the chamber, do I have to ???.

I have asked some of these questions of people I work with who carry. Hell, they haven't fired the pistol in a year or more.

Sorry if I strayed a tad, it is still relevant to the topic. Practice, Practice, Practice or suffer the consequences of not being prepared. If it takes competition then so be it. That is practice. JMO.

Semper Fi:

Karl