How Many Groups Do You Shoot?

[Jimbo357mag]

When working-up loads for accuracy how many groups and how many rounds in each group do you shoot before moving on or settling on a formula that you like? I am working on 30-30 loads and my accuracy shooting groups isn't all that good. I am working with 3 different powders and 4 different bullets in 2 different weights. If I try 4 different loads with each powder with all the different bullets that I have I get a rather staggering number of combinations. Something like 48 combinations. Now if I shoot 5 shot groups and 2 groups for each combination I am well gee way up there in the round count. This could take a while and then I have to go back and confirm my results with what I think are the best loads. Whewwwww I love re-loading. 8) 8)

...Jimbo

 

[pps]

I just pick a powder with whatever research has suggested should work well for the intended caliber and target velocities.

I settle on ONE bullet/weight and then go from there.

In 30-30 I have settled on Varget (very similar to 4064) but they always have it in stock at the local gun shop...so my choice here is largely based on availability. Reloader 7 and 3031 are almost perfect powders for 30-30

Unless you enjoy dealing with all the variables at once, I'd simplify on one powder/bullet combination. My gun likes the 170grain coreloc's and the Lyman 311041 cast bullet over 28 grains of Varget for 1800 fps out of an 18" pipe. Not earth shattering velocity but in groups pretty well for an open sighted lever gun. 2" at 50 yards, 5 shots

 

[mrbumps]

Someone just posted this link on developing an optimal load that I found very interesting and am planning to try.

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/#

 

[VA Shooter]

When trying new loads for my 45 Colt I load 18 rounds of a certain load and then do the same with the other loads that I'm trying I end up shooting about 200-300 rounds in a week end

 

[Lloyd Smale]

i shoot on 5 shot group initialy and then pick the best of those and reshoot them. If i get a group with 4 in a small group and on out i many try that group again if its a bulllet i really want to use or if the shot out is one i called.

 

[contender]

I think everyone has a different approach to your problem. I too used to try all kinds of combinations to try & squeeze out the ultimate load for a gun. Well, I have found that if I do a bit of research before I start loading, I can save money, and eliminate a lot of wasted money on marginal ammo.
First, I read the loading manuels to see what powders seem to produce the best results for them. Next, I study any other material I can find on that caliber. I narrow my research to a bullet weight range. Next, I select a couple of bullets I want to use. (Their intended purpose is the criteria I use there, such as; Is this a deer load or a bear load?)
Generally I stay with one of two primer brands, and I select the appropiate one for that caliber.
Lastly, I select a couple of powders that from my research will fit the criteria I wish. I tend to prefer a powder charge that mostly fills the case under the bullet, while staying within specs.
Then I load 15 or 20 of each powder weight, using the exact same bullet & primer combo.
I usually find that due to my studies, I will have a couple of very accurate loads within my test bunches.
I also shoot 5 shot groups, let the gun cool completely, and shoot another five.
Once I narrow all that down, I can tweak the best loads until I find what is the overall best.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Someone just posted this link on developing an optimal load that I found very interesting and am planning to try.

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/#

That article helps explain barrel harmonics and how accuracy can change with an increase in charge weight like a sine wave. That is part of the reason I am using 4 different powder charge weights initially with each different powder/bullet combination. Trying to find that optimal charge weight with each bullet. (OCW) :shock: :shock:

I think I am going to change my approach a little and work with two bullets and the three powders and see how that shakes out.

Thanks for the replies.

...Jimbo

 

[Mobuck]

I pick a powder which I feel is appropriate and shoot 3 shot groups until I reach my goal/max load. Most of the time, I've found decent accuracy by the time I reach that level. If not, I switch powders and try again. Three shot is an adequate group for a hunting rifle, at least in the develpment stage. IMHO 5 shots is wasting time and supplies until you get into benchrest quality loading.

 

[Bucks Owin]

I'd be curious as to how many shooters are able to "call" each and every shot they fire when "accuracy testing". (eg Knowing exactly where the sights are at the moment the hammer falls) It's hard to do, and easy to lose! It takes some serious concentration and unless one is able to do that consistently, most "testing", especially with hard recoiling handguns, is mainly having fun burning powder IMO, unless a certain load is glaringly inaccurate. Not many folks are "Human Ransom Rests" to the point that any results from burn rate or tiny variations in charge weight will be detected....

JMHO and musings... :wink:

 

[Rick Courtright]

I'd be curious as to how many shooters are able to "call" each and every shot they fire when "accuracy testing".

JMHO and musings... :wink:

Hi,

Don't look MY way, Bucks! I shot competitive trap, recreational skeet and plenty of birds w/ a shotgun for years, and got pretty good at all of them for a while.

Problem is, just about EVERYTHING one does "right" w/ a shotgun is "wrong" for good rifle/pistol shooting, and I've never overcome some of my "bad habits." Add to them a healthy flinch and a good case of the shakes, and there are days I'm lucky to stay "on paper," let alone be able to "call" shots!

As to the OP's question, I usually work up "experimental" loads of 10 rds, and shoot a three shot group first at 50 yds just to see where they're gonna hit. If they group ok, I'll shoot another three to see if it was for real or a fluke.

If the second one looks like it was "for real," I'll decide what to do next. A couple will probably go toward the 200 yd dinger. Maybe all four. If I'm happy there, I'll load 20 for the next time out so I can play w/ the scope.

Or, if things don't look so good, I'll make a note to the effect of "Not this one" in the book somewhere...

Rick C

 

[Bucks Owin]

10X Rick...

I remember an old Jack O'Connor quip that fits me perfectly:

"I've flinched with every sort of instrument that burns powder and some that don't".... :lol:


(I think he was speaking of a golf club too BTW)

 

[pps]

I'd be curious as to how many shooters are able to "call" each and every shot they fire when "accuracy testing". (eg Knowing exactly where the sights are at the moment the hammer falls) It's hard to do, and easy to lose! It takes some serious concentration and unless one is able to do that consistently, most "testing", especially with hard recoiling handguns, is mainly having fun burning powder IMO, unless a certain load is glaringly inaccurate. Not many folks are "Human Ransom Rests" to the point that any results from burn rate or tiny variations in charge weight will be detected....

JMHO and musings... :wink:

At 25 yards from a sandbag (even with a handgun) the windage should be able to be determined. Even with a handgun, using a sandbag and the same sight picture, one should get a good idea of how a particular load will shoot. i'm pretty methodical in the way I test hand-loads and in how I test the ammo...even out of a handgun.

 

[mattsbox99]

Audette's Ladder test is startling at how well it works.

Normally I pick the Nosler bullet I want to use, some form of Reloder powder for the cartridge and start playing. I'm usually pretty good at getting it right. I don't have to worry about accuracy with the shotguns, most of my handgun shooting is USPSA type action shooting, and I primarily deer hunt or shoot steel plates offhand, so I don't care about tiny groups.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Working with just two bullets and three powders I have got the number of targets to shoot down to 24. I have shot 12 so far. I should be done with my preliminary evaluations in a couple more weekends. I wish I was a better shooter as I have a lot of flyers. But I also have some 2 and 3 holes touching groups at 50 yards. Things are looking up compared to when I started reloading for the 30-30. 8) 8)

...Jimbo

 

[WESHOOT2]

I am never satisfied; development never ends.

All I have is "good enough for now until I find something better".

 

[Bucks Owin]

I am never satisfied; development never ends.

All I have is "good enough for now until I find something better".

10X...

To quote from the movie Tin Cup "Perfection unobtainable". :wink:

I'd say the rail guns used in BR competition may come close, but there's really no such thing as "perfect accuracy"...

( I tend to settle for "damn fine accuracy" and am relentless in it's pursuit... :wink: )

 

[volshooter]

I start with one bullet and try 5 shot groups with pistol and 3 shots with rifle. We all know a flyer so count it out.
However I do use up to three powders and run the scale to find the best group. If you are worried about the power I suggest moving to the next caliber. Most firearms perform best with less than max loads.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

...If you are worried about the power I suggest moving to the next caliber. Most firearms perform best with less than max loads.

I am actually hoping to find some good combinations well below max because that is where I am most comfortable loading cartridges. Being just a target shooter for now I would consider that a win/win. BTW the Federal factory ammo is so good that is probably what I would hunt with. Besides I need a source of once-fired brass.

...Jimbo

 

[Bucks Owin]

Besides I need a source of once-fired brass.

...Jimbo

Here ya go:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=250690412

:wink: 8)