How do I alter a New Model action so it cannot be fanned?

[JimMarch1]

I have a new high-efficiency gas trap design that I think can be used to gas-power cock Maurice the FrankenRuger.

Problem is, if I do that and hold back the trigger I end up violating that pesky Hughes Amendment thingie - in other words it'll go full rock'n'roll auto.

I need a disconnector so that it needs a trigger reset between shots. Anybody have any ideas?

 

[bisleyfan41]

What?

 

[The Blackhawk Kid]

Just plug the fan in and yer on yer own!

 

[JimMarch1]

If I use muzzle gas power to cock a New Vaquero the damnthing will go full auto on me. Great, 'cept for legal issues. LOTS o' legal issues.

Any idea how I can rig a disconnector of some sort?

Note that I'm already using gas power to auto-eject empty shells. The firing shell's muzzle gas causes the previously fired shell to auto-eject out a modified loading gate and off a hammer-mounted shell deflector.

Maurice the FrankenRuger is probably the most heavily modded revolver in history already. The gas-eject setup and magazine feeding (so far up to 14rds with a 6-shot cylinder in 9mmPara) have already cemented that title, I suspect. Auto-cocking would take it right over the edge but I gotta figure out how not to go full-boogie.

Anybody got any ideas?

Pics and video to prove I'm not kidding around:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=511297

I tried to figure out how many SASS rules this thing violates. Best I can come up with is "all of 'em".

 

[street]

Now that's funny and I don't care who you are!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[bisleyfan41]

Oh, I see......
Neat design, congrats on your accomplishment.

 

[jcs271]

I think this is one of those ingenius solutions to a NON-EXISTANT problem! Well done.

 

[Joe S.]

here is the best tip i can think of for you...

BUY A TAX STAMP!!! and LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL!!!!

then rent it to movie sets around the country!!! that would be sweet in a fantasy western!!

 

[contender]

You can not "just buy a tax stamp" when you are manufacturing a full auto firearm. What the OP is trying to do is NOT have a full auto firearm.

 

[Joe S.]

Why cant you? I thought thats all you had to do to own one?

 

[gmartinnc]

A stamp will get you one made prior to 1986 I believe. Owning one made after that date, will get you a lot of trouble and perhaps a extended vacation at the big house, courtesy of the government.

 

[Joe S.]

OHHHHH

 

[contender]

He is "modifying or manufacturing a firearm that could be full auto." You can not convert any currently owned firearm into full auto by "just buying a stamp."

 

[Joe S.]

Thanks for that info yall. I thought it was one and the same. Shoulda known better since the govt is involved.

 

[JimMarch1]

Two political paragraphs first, then on to tech stuff.

Joe S: in 1986 the feds passed a law called the "Firearm Owner's Protection Act" which was written as a good thing. Let's say you were driving from Pennsylvania to Maine and had to go through New York (state and/or city) to get there, and you had guns in the trunk that were legal in both PA and MA. Under FOPA New York (city and state) were banned from screwing with you if your guns were illegal in NY and/or NYC.

Well at the last minute something called the "Hughes Amendment" was tacked on. This said that no full auto gun that wasn't already registered for private ownership in 1986 could be sold on the civilian market. This basically created a fixed pool of full-auto guns from that point forward. As a result even the crappiest possible full autos from, say, 1985 (Mac10 or whatever) is worth a minimum of $5k today (maybe more, I haven't checked for a while) and really good full autos papered on or before '86 can be worth a small fortune. There are people out there with million dollar full auto collections that would fit in a bedroom...and if the Hughes Amendment is ever struck down by the courts or repealed by the legislature the values of those collections will crash and burn.

So anyways, what I *could* do is apply for an "Any Other Weapon" stamp to allow adding a shoulder stock to Maurice (with a much bigger magazine, and I've considered that!) and I could pay another tax stamp for a silencer. But full auto is a no-go at any price.

As to my original question: I don't see how.

I finally did what I should have done in the beginning: figured out how JMB kept the 1911 from going full-auto by accident (known as a "burst").

This page helped a lot:

http://www.m1911.org/1911desc.htm

Second pic tells the story: there's a piece between the trigger and hammer that a Ruger New Model SA action doesn't have, and then a "disconnector" that is slide-operated that moves the sear back into position before the hammer can drop again.

OK...well let's assume for a sec that I could somehow shoehorn a sear into the frame between the hammer and trigger, rolling on a new side-pin through the frame. Tricky as hell but let's say I could make it happen. I don't see any possible room for a disconnector in there too. Now, I could mount a disconnector externally and operate it with gas pressure, but...my legal problems aren't solved because by holding the disconnector shut against the gas pressure I would have basically a manually selectable full auto feature and...yeah, we're back to illegal-as-heck.

Now, IF the Hughes Amendment were to go away then yes, it can be done. I could do a linkage right off the current shell deflector pin location, run a gas line to push an actuator rod and I'm in business. I could even rig a gas shut-off valve going to the rod to select between manually cocked operation and full-auto.

So...no, for now. What I will do, when I rebuild the gas trap in a few weeks, is add compensator ports so that I no longer have enough gas pressure that could be tapped to theoretically rig it full auto with some other changes as well of course.

 

[contender]

While Jim has obviously modified a SA gun more than anyone could imagine, he fully understands the laws & his limitations under the law. He also has a truly good grasp of how a firearm works and how to make something that is ingenious & different.

 

[rugerguy]

over medicating and or BEER , can do this to any adult............... 8) :roll: :wink:

back in the 'day' we just used block of wood, car antennae, a nail and lots of electrical tape.........

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Well, maybe you could start with a semi-auto revolver or use the basics of their system and then add shell ejection?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_revolver

 

[Joe S.]

The guy is a thinker. Man that is too cool.

 

[Bob Wright]

How do you propose to cock the hamer? If by some type of gas actuated piston, have the piston held captive by a sear arrangement that would not be activated until pressure is applied to the trigger. Or maybe a double sear arrangement such as found on the trigger of the M1 rifle.

Bob Wright

 

[JimMarch1]

OK...solve the problem at the piston...hmmm...

Bob, I like it, but unfortunately the piston has to be external to the gun, connecting to a linkage at the side of the hammer. And that means the sear is external, so I could probably manipulate it with my off hand, disengage it and if I can do that, whoops, we're back into full auto territory .

 

[Ale-8(1)]

over medicating and or BEER , can do this to any adult............... 8) :roll: :wink:

back in the 'day' we just used block of wood, car antennae, a nail and lots of electrical tape.........

. . . and a hunk of bicycle innertube as a "mainspring".

So I'm told, of course.

 

[Bob Wright]

OK...solve the problem at the piston...hmmm...

Bob, I like it, but unfortunately the piston has to be external to the gun, connecting to a linkage at the side of the hammer. And that means the sear is external, so I could probably manipulate it with my off hand, disengage it and if I can do that, whoops, we're back into full auto territory .

O.K. Then I see some extensive modification to the hammer/trigger, using the twin hammer hooks and double sear arrangement, again from John Garand.

As the hammer was cocked, the rear sear engaged a set of hammer hooks. Pressure on the trigger had to be released, which allowed the hammer to move into engagement with the forward sear, which held the action cocked until pressure was applied to the trigger for firing.

Study the trigger mechanism of the M1 rifle.

Bob Wright

 

[Chance]

You definetly have a conundrum there. A lighter gas may work so if you have a good reloading scale you can weigh the gas (may take some practice getting the gas to stay on the scale tray). Brownells used to sell a molecule cutter specifically designed to cut individual gas molecules up to ten times. The real problem is getting the molecules positioned in the molecule vice (from Midway, I think) for cutting. This whole process is very tedious and molecule overcutting can get your ass in a sling at the EPA, DOJ, DHS, HHS, FAA and SEC if you are not careful.

An easier way may be to get Cabela's new Blowback Simiculator commonly refered to as BS.

Hope this helps and good luck with that fully auto Vaquero.

 

[anachronism]

You need a way to divorce the hand from the hammer. Perhaps devise some sort of intermediate sear system. It's been decades since I've had a single-action apart.

 

[Hondo44]

I tried to figure out how many SASS rules this thing violates. Best I can come up with is "all of 'em".

It only has to violate the first one, which it does handily: the gun must be from the 1860 to 1899 time period. After that none of the other rules matter.

And there's no allowance of "Back to the Future" firearms.