Been reading about plus and minus of hi press 45 LC load. Its well established the Blackhawk, Redhawk, TC Contender and above all, Freedom Arms S.A. will handle hi pressure loads. The weak link in all this is the case. The 45 LC case was NEVER designed to withstand such loadings. It is highly recommended to use the brass only ONCE or TWICE if loaded to hi press. So I'm thinking, maybe I can trim 454 Casull brass and ream if necessary. That brass is certainlly designed for hot loads. Kinda pricey to do it that way, but I've only got two eyes and one Right hand !! The left hand is a slow learner and I don't want to go there. But, the 454 brass, according to publications, is a couple thous smaller than the 45 LC. So, if fired in my 45 cyl, the 454 case is going to expand a good bit, maybe .oo4. Is this continued sizing /expanding going to shorten case life anyway? So therefore, no gain in going with 454 brass? Unless I have a cyl cut for 454 chambers and 45 LC length. Might as well buy a 454, huh?? Since there are so may hunters and hi power shooters using the 45 LC, do you think there is even a remote possibility of the makers comming out with 45 LC +P brass? Thicker in the web, head and walls. Maybe if enough folks emailed them. :?
HI PRESSURE 45 COLT
- Thread starter 30calpal
- Start date
Boxhead
Buckeye
All that you have read about weak 45 Colt brass is crap. Buy yourself some Starline 45 Colt brass (Federal's is supposed to be even "stouter" but I have no personal experience) and load a Ruger Blackhawk to what the books (Hodgdon's #26 is best IMO) tell you, 325's at 1300 is not a problem that I know. I have just started loading it to much higher levels in a 5 shot Ruger but won't offer anything until I know personally. Lee offers a view with his experiences with a 5 shot 45 Colt gun in his articles. No need for the Casull as I read it and see given my short experience with my gun.
J Miller
Blackhawk
Boxhead is correct. The old conventional knowledge about "weak" .45 Colt cases came from generations ago when balloon head cases were still abundant. They are all but extinct now.
Corbon uses regular old R-P cases in their 30,000 PSI .45 Colt heavy hunting loads. They wouldn't do that if those cases were weak. Too much liability.
Starline brass is great for heavy loads as is Federal if you can find any. Winchester and Remington is good for heavy to normal loads.
The thing I will comment on is Remington brass does look to be thinner than the others and will expand to seal the chambers at a lower pressure. I like it for that.
Joe
Corbon uses regular old R-P cases in their 30,000 PSI .45 Colt heavy hunting loads. They wouldn't do that if those cases were weak. Too much liability.
Starline brass is great for heavy loads as is Federal if you can find any. Winchester and Remington is good for heavy to normal loads.
The thing I will comment on is Remington brass does look to be thinner than the others and will expand to seal the chambers at a lower pressure. I like it for that.
Joe
Yep! What Boxhead and Joe said.
Starline says for their brass : "Originally designed for use with blackpowder, the .45 Colt is one of the most powerful, commonly available handgun cartridges when loaded with smokeless powder. Our .45 Colt brass has been tested to .44 Magnum pressures in gun systems suitable for such loads. "
http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/d ... e_myth.htm
sixshot
Buckeye
See if you can find a back issue of Handloader magazine where Ross Seyfried talks about "Turbo Charging" the 45 Colt, best article you'll ever read on high pressure loads in the 5 & 6 shot guns.
Federal brass can be bought already loaded, its hard to find empty! Starline is excellent also.
With heavy loads in a Ruger 45 the cylinder & topstrap will let go before the brass will.
Dick
Federal brass can be bought already loaded, its hard to find empty! Starline is excellent also.
With heavy loads in a Ruger 45 the cylinder & topstrap will let go before the brass will.
Dick
I hadn't thought about that! I've used Starline for most all my shooting light (Trail Boss loads) to heavy. Get plenty of 'blow back' with with the light loads. I'll have to try the Remington and see if it makes a difference!
Yosemite Sam
Hunter
Thanks for the tip on Remington! I have the same issue as Rclark.
Another thing to consider with .454 brass, besides the $80/100 price that my LGS gets for it: It uses a small rifle primer instead of a large pistol, like traditional .45 Colt. This may have an effect on your loads, and would certainly put you into a "work it back up" position.
-- Sam
Another thing to consider with .454 brass, besides the $80/100 price that my LGS gets for it: It uses a small rifle primer instead of a large pistol, like traditional .45 Colt. This may have an effect on your loads, and would certainly put you into a "work it back up" position.
-- Sam
45Colt_Man
Blackhawk
The R-P brass is about a .0015" thinner than the Starline doing a quick check. Winchester is in the middle of the two. Don't have any Federal to check.
Dana
Dana
Thanks to all for the really good information. It does make good sense that the ammo makers wouldn't use if it were likely to exposed them to liability. I have a Blackhawk Bisley and will keep it a 6-shooter. I just want to 'tune it up' so that it is a accurate as I can make it for moderate and occasional Lt-Hvy loads. I don't plan on creating my own private earthquate when I touch one off.
flatgate
Hawkeye
Dick Casull developed the "hot .45 Colt" while using standard .45 Colt brass. The .454 case was produced to prevent the loading of the very high pressure loads into a .45 Colt chamber.
The 5 shot .45 Colt, as produced by Linebaugh and then quite a few others, just about duplicates the .454's performance, but is centered around the "heavy for calibre" bullets. Standard, "store bought" .45 Colt brass is up to the task.
As the others above have stated, the brass is the least of your worries.......
:D
I routinely run "Ruger Only" loads out of my New Model .45 cal. Blackhawks. I don't think my stainless example has EVER SEEN a standard .45 Colt cartridge.
JMHO,
flatgate
PS You'll encounter a "need" for a tall front sight if you use the heavier weight bullets.
The 5 shot .45 Colt, as produced by Linebaugh and then quite a few others, just about duplicates the .454's performance, but is centered around the "heavy for calibre" bullets. Standard, "store bought" .45 Colt brass is up to the task.
As the others above have stated, the brass is the least of your worries.......
:D
I routinely run "Ruger Only" loads out of my New Model .45 cal. Blackhawks. I don't think my stainless example has EVER SEEN a standard .45 Colt cartridge.
JMHO,
flatgate
PS You'll encounter a "need" for a tall front sight if you use the heavier weight bullets.
Rick Courtright
Hawkeye
30calpal":wi02kyz7 said:
Hi,
Adequate safety practices so your "hot" .45s NEVER get used in a gun not designed for them?
Reread the comment on why Dick Casull used longer brass for his .454... it's the same mentality as we see w/ the .38 Spl vs.357 Mag or .44 Spl vs .44 Mag situation.
Rick C
If all your .45 Colt shooting is with the Ruger Bisley then ... no worries.... Just do the standard 'work up a load' routine given the manual(s) data and you'll be fine.
I like 'pleasant' shooting myself, so I keep my loads under 1100 fps..... More like around 800-900 fps actually for my general purpose loads....
Bucks Owin
Hunter
Not to be recommended, but the "weak" .45 Colt case has routinely held 60K for folks like Linebaugh and Casull in strong tight guns. 'Nuff said? :wink: My standard "plinking" .45 BH load is a 250-60 gr at 1150 fps....Sweet...(BTW, Elmer's use of a corroded, folded head, BP .45 Colt case to wreck his overloaded .45 SAA was HIS fault, not the cartridge case's and I wish all this "weak case" BS would go away!)
Boxhead
Buckeye
Rick Courtright":1gogl9rq said:
I load my stout Ruger only loads with bullets that disallow me putting them where they do not belong, a go/no-go gauge if you will.
Thanks again for all the info and comments. Very helpful. I'm just two steps ahead of a single-cell amoeba so I have to keep things REALLY simple. I plan to develop a load consisting of a WFN-GC 300 gr in the neighborhood of 1100 fps. The long bullet should have the front end engaged while the back end is still in cyl. Very magageable, very deadly.
Bucks Owin
Hunter
Good plan amigo. A 300 gr .45 at 1100 fps makes for a very potent sixgun! I have been playing with cast bullets in that weight range over W296 in new WW cases as per John Linebaugh's recommendations. His data has been pretty much dead on as to velocity. I recently tested some Lyman 457191 292 gr bullets sized to .454" over 22 grs W296, CCI 350 and clocked an average of 1260 fps 3' from the muzzle. (This bullet will fit with just a little room to spare in the BH's cylinder). It's all the "thunder" that I need from a handgun! (At either end :lol: ) And the penetration in wet newsprint and oak wood is pretty impressive... :shock: Enjoy and keep us posted....(BTW, for Linebaugh "barn burners" in my fat chambers, I like to only size the portion of the case that actually grips the bullet, ("neck size" if you will) and after 3 loadings I use the cases for garden variety 250 gr @ 1150 fps loads. Case life is excellent and it gives me a little peace of mind about the "weak case". :wink: The case WILL bulge forward of the web somewhat in Ruger's oversize charge holes and I see no good in overworking the brass by repeated resizing. It's a "Ruger problem" dimension wise, and not a "case problem" strength wise... )30calpal":eglmucjd said:
