Helping a friend get started in reloading....

[Mus408]

I'm giving him guidance in getting setup for his adventure in reloading.
He is starting out with a Lee progressive press even though I recommended the Dillon 550, he is coming along OK.
One thing I did tell him was to get a good beam scale and if he wanted a digital scale too but don't skimp on quality. So he tells me he bought a digital scale from Harbor Freight and it didn't come with any calibration weight.
Thinking he could just calibrate it with a 200 gr. bullet,I told him just because the bullet info claims it is 200 gr. does not make it so as actual bullet weights vary several grains. Get you a good beam scale right now before you load any powder I told him!
He likes to save a dollar but don't skimp on your powder scale!!

 

[kmoore]

I will agree with your statements. I do not know the HP unit, but make damn sure it measures grains not grams.
Reloading can get real expense fast, but most of the better quality stuff will last longer than your friend. I have been looking on ebay and there is a lot of used reloading items on it. Because the typical reloading stuff lasts so well, used maybe a good way to get started.

 

[grobin]

Calibration weights in sets are available on Amazon inexpensively.

A quick look at HF online shows no scale useful for reloading !!. None is in grains!

Amazon has reloading scales from $20 up. Beam balances run ~$75.
He needs to get one!

 

[loaded round]

Interesting comments on beam balances and digital balances. FYI, the digital balance has completely replaced the beam balance in hospital, industrial, and higher education laboratories. Digital balances are quicker, easier to operate, and less of a chance of misreading a value. As others ave said, get a good one. Lyman, and RCBS offer several models of digital balances that are excellent. I personally use a Dillon balance and am 100% pleased with it. BTW however, a beam balance never wears out, breaks, or needs a battery replacement, it's just old fashioned technology.

 

[SweetWilliam]

I have both. A Hornady digital and a RCBS Beam. I’ve checked the weight comparison between the two and they are pretty much identical.
The Hornady digital came with the calibration weight.
I’ve had it for probably 5 years and only had to change the battery once.

 

[SweetWilliam]

I have both. A Hornady digital and a RCBS Beam. I’ve checked the weight comparison between the two and they are pretty much identical.
The Hornady digital came with the calibration weight.
I’ve had it for probably 5 years and only had to change the battery once.

 

[RandyP]

I use digital calipers and a low cost (under $40) digital scale for all my reloading needs. Because of their inherent accuracy? Heck no - it's because at 70 ( yes it stuns me I made it this long too -lol) my old eyeballs thank me for the convenience.

You young bucks out there who chuckled? Just wait....YOUR day is coming. lol

 

[Mus408]

I have the Dillon beam scale and the Frankford Arsenal digital scale.
Have found that the digital scale will wander a couple tenths of a grain depending on how long the scale is on.
I always backup the digital readings with the beam scale and will swap back and forth between scales while checking powder dump setup.
Thru the reloading process I make occasional weight checks which usually show Unique powder variations of 2 tenths of a grain.
And another note...do not have any fan or air movement when weighing powders as it causes the scale
to fluctuate.

 

[gramps]

I too have a digital scale and a Lee beam scale to verify the digital. I think he should get an single stage to use first. Progressives have sooo much going on at the same time, and that is how stuff happens. If he isn’t fully aware of the loading process well you see what can happen. Good on you for your help!
gramps

 

[pleadthe2nd]

I also use the frankford arsenal digital scale, if your patient with it I find it to be very accurate. I have checked it a against the Hornady and the weigh identically. They cost about the same too.

 

[grobin]

I use a calibrated lab balance from Ohaus PA84 it's accurate to 0.0001 grams. I bought it for formulating coatings and tints. I work in mg as it's better resolution. The balance gives me a choice of 14different units.

Most digital scales are not real accurate and a florescent light of motor in the vicinity will throw them off. Beam balances are unaffected by magnetic or electrical fields.

 

[mikld]

One good way to "turn off" a new reloader is if he tries to start with a progressive press, and especially a Lee which has a bad reputation. He needs to learn how to reload, not operate a reloading machine, big difference. If he insists on a progressive press right away, I'd prolly just say "good luck" and walk away from the soon to happen confusion and frustration.

For a new reloader K.I.S.S. is the best way to go; first a good study of "The ABCs of Reloading", then single stage press, w/o "quick fit" bushings so he will learn to adjust dies properly, a standard die set and analog measuring tools and scale. A "classic" load for the cartridge he's reloading, with jacketed bullets is an easier start, and he should find a load in his reloading manuals before he buys power, primer, or bullets.

I've worked with/taught a few apprentices for Auto Electrics/Electronics and I've found the best and longest lasting/retention is start basic and simple...

 

[Mus408]

When I started reloading I jumped right in with the Dillon 550B which for me was easy to get up and running. Later I found things go even smoother by doing decapping off the press for less mess and better cleaning of the brass and also doing the priming using the RCBS hand primer.
Coming from a machinist background I find ways to make improvements on any tooling issue on the press.
But yes I read a lot on the basic reloading skills and planning loads. powders and bullets.

 

[grobin]

Just make sure that he knows the HF scale is useless for reloading. At best they are in grams & tenths. One gram is 15.432 grains and you need tenth of a grain accuracy!

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Show your friend a good source for reloading equipment, like Midway or one of the other online stores where he can compare equipment. Make sure he knows about the big manufactures of equipment like RCBS, Lee, Hornady and Lyman.

...oh and some books.

 

[jgt]

sounds like you need to call time out and have a serious talk with your friend. Since he believes he can buy things you are not recommending, he is either getting mixed signals from you or he is ignoring your advice. I would want to know if he really wants to get into reloading or does he just want to make something go "bang"? If he just want to make something go "bang" all he needs is a set of lee dies and a mallet.
As for labs going to digital scales...…I think you will find those digital scales sell for several thousand dollar compared to ones being offered to reloaders. The balance beam scales are not obsolete they are just not the latest fad.
If I had a friend that would continue to go off on his own and buy equipment I had not recommended, I would be afraid he would do the same with his reloading practices. That kind of person will likely soon be missing eyes or fingers and guess who he will blame?

 

[RandyP]

I did see two Harbor Freight sub-$15 digital scales that do register in grains, but personally use one off Amazon for under$40.

I would agree that if your buddy tends to not follow advice? Remember the sage counsel that "No good deed goes unpunished." Cut yer losses quickly before he suffers any. I LUV Lee reloading gear but would instead recommend their Classic Turret, reloading's Best Buy.

 

[loaded round]

Jgt: Not trying to start a spitting contest with you, but you're incorrect regarding digital balances. Laboratory grade digital balances can be purchased from around 500.00 to 10,000.00. Price depends on what precision and readability you require. These digital balances are not a fad but have replaced the beam balance and are here to stay. Beam balances in the scientific industry have all gone to the laboratory in the sky along with corrosive primers and black powder. I've been in the scientific field for 37 years and have worked in labs half that time. If we discuss this further, the proper name for a beam instrument is a scale. Balance denotes a digital instrument in the scientific field. BTW, you can buy a decent digital balance for around 50.00 for reloading as long as reads to at least one decimal place ( two would be better) assuming there is a calibration weight included.

sounds like you need to call time out and have a serious talk with your friend. Since he believes he can buy things you are not recommending, he is either getting mixed signals from you or he is ignoring your advice. I would want to know if he really wants to get into reloading or does he just want to make something go "bang"? If he just want to make something go "bang" all he needs is a set of lee dies and a mallet.
As for labs going to digital scales...…I think you will find those digital scales sell for several thousand dollar compared to ones being offered to reloaders. The balance beam scales are not obsolete they are just not the latest fad.
If I had a friend that would continue to go off on his own and buy equipment I had not recommended, I would be afraid he would do the same with his reloading practices. That kind of person will likely soon be missing eyes or fingers and guess who he will blame?

 

[Mus408]

Well he bought 2 new scales...a Frankfort Arsenal digital and a Lee beam scale at Cabela's yesterday.
He is getting started with loading .44 Magnum for his new Marlin lever rifle.
I told him 9 gr. of Unique with a 240 gr. bullet is a great load to start with for target and steel plinking,which is what I use.
He also picked up some load manuals.

 

[RandyP]

Good news.

Regarding the MUCH maligned Lee beam scale. It is an extremely accurate and sensitive thing of wonder. It is also really cumbersome at weighing an unknown because the adjustments are so finely marked and "fiddly".

However it actually works very well to confirm a desired weight. If you really want 1/20 of a grain powder accuracy with any powder, set the ball and poise indicators to the weight desired and trickle the powder into the pan. When the beam lines up, you ARE there exactly.

And as I've already mentioned elsewhere, I use and LUV an economical digital scale, and my old geezer eyeballs thank me - lol

 

[powder smoke]

I have been using a beam scale for many years, hard to go wrong!
The digital scales I have heard that florescent lighting can make them inaccurate.
The balance beam style do not lie! ps

 

[mikld]

Reading more about this new comer, I might reconsider "helping". I would never give a new reloader a load, I would show him how to read his reloading manual(s). I tell all new reloaders my "Rule #1"; pay very little (no) attention to any load data from any forum expert, range rat, gun counter clerk, pet loads website well meaning friend, or gun shop guru. Get load data from published reloading manuals and stick to that data. This will keep new reloaders out of trouble and I have been doing this for 30+ years with only an occasional look-see at a powder manufacturer's web site. (in 1970 I had a squib and never had a Kaboom...).

 

[grobin]

Digital scales are prevalent today because: they are cheaper, a chimp can run one, they are suitable for automation, can automatically convert units, have a wider range of weights, have better resolution/accuracy, auto tare and easier calibration. Their problems are: they are sensitive to electrical/magnetic fields and are more sensitive to temperature and air movement. You can reload with either type so long as they are calibrated.

 

[loaded round]

Grobin: FYI, Digital balances in today's dollars are much more cheaper than analytical scales of yesteryear. Electronic digital balances for the past ten years have been basically unaffected by florescent fields with the exception of the cheaper 15-20.00 ones sold at Harbor Freight and similar stores. Close magnetic fields will affect any type balance that has steel components. You are 100% correct regarding your other comments about digital balances.


quote="grobin"]Digital scales are prevalent today because: they are cheaper, a chimp can run one, they are suitable for automation, can automatically convert units, have a wider range of weights, have better resolution/accuracy, auto tare and easier calibration. Their problems are: they are sensitive to electrical/magnetic fields and are more sensitive to temperature and air movement. You can reload with either type so long as they are calibrated.[/quote]

 

[grobin]

Like I said they are relatively cheaper than analog. BUT all are susceptible to electronic and magnetic fields. At least the common torsion beam ones are. Use an empty pan and move the scale near an electric motor or flo. This includes reloading balances like RCBS, Lyman and Hornady. Not as much affected as the cheaper ones but at the .1 grain levels they all are!

 

[Clovishound]

I really like my little Frankford Arsenal digital scale. I do find that it can be a little finicky at times, and so I have a quality beam scale set up to double check any time I have questions about the reading from the digital. I always use the beam to verify a weight when changing the throws on my powder measure. Otherwise, the digital is just to give me periodic QCs to make sure I don't drift off. It works well for that, and is far more convenient for checking bullet weights.

 

[Mus408]

Well he got 80 rounds loaded without too much issue and made diligent checks on powder weight and
COL. He made up a few dummy rounds less powder/primer for checking purposes in his Marlin rifle.

That load I suggested to him came out of my Speer No. 13 book and is a good one for
.44 Mag plinking revolver or rifle and I use it all the time.
I did suggest he compare any load data he may come across with a load manual.

 

[mikld]

I have a digital scale I bought from Frankfort Arsenal. When setting up I set my powder measure against my RCBS 5-10 or my Lyman D5. Then I check my digital against the measurements I get on my beam scales. I check zero every time I replace the pan and on cold days I put the scale under a 100 watt light bulb for 5 or so minutes to get the chill off (I have had variations when the scale is cold).

Jgt: Not trying to start a spitting contest with you, but you're incorrect regarding digital balances. Laboratory grade digital balances can be purchased from around 500.00 to 10,000.00.

I believe we are discussing scales for reloading. Yep there are Lab quality digital scales, but waaay out of reach for most reloaders and .01 grain is not needed in reloading. I have seen some Ohaus lab quality beam scales that will also measure to less than .01 grain...

 

[grobin]

The cost of a lab balance is largely determined by the resolution/accuracy and the weight range. Balance capacity is given in grams typically. A mg (0.001grams is 0.0154324 grains) is too fine a resolution and a 0.01gram is fine. A Ohaus lab balance with 85g capacity x 0.1mg readability is ~$1,200 one with 220g capacity and 0.001 resolution is ~$300.

 

[Twoboxer]

Unfortunately, "readability" has little to do with "precision" or "repeatability". Under ~$500, the strain gauge used is far too susceptible to noise, both on the line and over the air. This is what causes these scales to flutter and frequently lose zero.

When a scale has lost zero, do you have any idea when it lost zero? Was it on the way up to the weight in the pan? On the way down to the negative weight absent the pan? Or on the way back up to zero? You have no clue which.

Some of these scales hold zero better than others via programming that ignores small changes in weight from the current reading. Unfortunately, that makes trickling into those scales a bit of a pain since with most every trickle one needs to tap the pan to force a reweighing.

The "lab grade" scales are those that do not use a strain gauge. AFAIK, at this time the least expensive of these is the A&D FX120i available at ~$500. The scale is so good that aftermarket devices (AutoTrickler, AutoThrower) use the "outdated" serial port on the scale to turn it into a +/- one particle dispenser.

While $500 may be out of reach for some (~$720 with an AutoTrickler), saying these scales are not suitable for reloading is just flat out wrong.