Help with reloading problem

[DennisE]

I have a Ruger Bisley 44 mag and a Lipsey Bisley 44 Special. I've been reloading for them with a Hornady Lock-n-Load AP press I got set up a few months ago and have loaded and shot about 1500 rounds between the 2 so far. I have one problem:

The finished rounds come out with a thin band of lubricant and a shaved off partial ring of lead stuck to the side of the case. One of my dies must be adjusted wrong. What do I adjust to eliminate this annoying issue? Thanks, Dennis

 

[M'BOGO]

A shot in the dark here, are you seating and crimping in the same step?

 

[454PB]

Yup, a classic symptom of seating and crimping in the same step.

 

[Pal Val]

If you are seating and crimping at the same time, the crimp is starting before the seating plug has had a chance to seat the bullet. You have to either have less crimp or turn in the seating die a bit. Either way, it should be a tiny adjustment.

 

[DennisE]

Thank you gentlemen! Dennis

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Either that, or... Try expanding the case mouth slightly more. I find that if I try to be too frugal on my expansion I get similar results to what you describe.

-- Sam

 

[Scott]

Opening the expanding die just a tad worked for me. I think I was going overboard trying not to stress my brass any more than necessary and ended up shaving lead in the process. open it a tiny bit with a few succesive cases, seat the bullet, and repeat until JUST after you get no shaving.

 

[Divernhunter]

+1 for adjusting the expanding die to bell the brass just alittle more.

 

[powder smoke]

Either that, or... Try expanding the case mouth slightly more. I find that if I try to be too frugal on my expansion I get similar results to what you describe.

-- Sam

+1 ps

 

[DGW1949]

Might check to insure that there aint a bunch of lead residue all coated-up inside the seater die too.

DGW

 

[DennisE]

Thanks for all the help folks! Dennis

 

[Rclark]

Might check to insure that there aint a bunch of lead residue all coated-up inside the seater die too.

Speaking of that, I removed my .44 seating/crimping die last night and the seating plug cup was plumb full of the red bullet lubricate. I had loaded about 600 rounds without cleaning it. Will now clean/check it more often! Why I even noticed is, the bullets seemed to be seating just a bit deeper than I can originally set it for..... Not a big deal, but not what I wanted either... Opps.

+1 for adjusting the expanding die to bell the brass just alittle more.

Agree. Should be able to set the bullet slightly 'into' the case instead of just 'balancing' on top of the case. If that makes sense!

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Yup, a classic symptom of seating and crimping in the same step.

Howdy

With all due respect, I seat and crimp in the same step with almost all my ammo. I don't shave off a ring of lead.

This has nothing to do with seating and crimping in one step, it is probably caused by not belling the case mouth enough, as has already been stated. Bell the case progressively enough so that you can stick a bullet in and the sharp edge of the case does not touch the bullet. It takes about five minutes to get this set correctly. Just take the belled case out and eyeball a bullet in the bell. Too little bell will be obvious.

With all due respect, seating and crimping in one step is not rocket science. It just takes a little bit of extra care to set the dies correctly in the first place. It burns my butt when folks claim that seating and crimping in one step causes these kinds of problems.

 

[Iron Mike Golf]

I really do like the Lyman M expander. It opens up the mouth nicely without making a curved flare or bell. I'd like to think thaat will extend my case life.

One thing that can mess you up is if your cases vary in length too much. If you set your bullet depth and crimp using one of the shorter cases, then when you load a longer one, it will crimp early and the rest of your stroke will be shaving lead or lube.

That happens to me occasionally when I load mixed brass that I have not trimmed for plinking. I don't get worried over it much. Just have to clean things afterwards.

 

[Cholo]

Howdy

With all due respect, I seat and crimp in the same step with almost all my ammo. I don't shave off a ring of lead.

This has nothing to do with seating and crimping in one step, it is probably caused by not belling the case mouth enough, as has already been stated. Bell the case progressively enough so that you can stick a bullet in and the sharp edge of the case does not touch the bullet. It takes about five minutes to get this set correctly. Just take the belled case out and eyeball a bullet in the bell. Too little bell will be obvious.

With all due respect, seating and crimping in one step is not rocket science. It just takes a little bit of extra care to set the dies correctly in the first place. It burns my butt when folks claim that seating and crimping in one step causes these kinds of problems.

I'll gladly be in the minority and agree with DJ. Any handgun cartridge I roll crimp gets seated in the same step. It's never caused any kind of shaving problem. If lead or copper plating is being shaved, something's not right and it's not seating and roll crimping at the same time. I'd also recommend sizing, camphering, deburring and trimming all new brass or old brass that's been trimmed. An improper seating stem can cause problems as well.

I've done them both ways can see absolutely no difference on paper. I'm a firm believer in reloading in whatever fashion that someone feels is best. Confidence does mean a lot in many things. I'd have to see actual proof with my handloads done both ways that there's any noticable difference in their accuracy. I'll put my reloads up against anybody's, though not my shooting ability :wink:

 

[Cherokee]

My past experience on seat/crimp: Some cases require more of a bell for a particular bullet and the seating die is so tight it takes part of the bell off before the bullet is seated, thereby shaving lead. A new die set may not solve the problem if your gun needs an oversize bullet. I started a long time ago seating and crimping separately, easier for me to control the events.

 

[J Miller]

I'm also in agreement with Cholo and Driftwood Johnson. The lead and lube being shaved off the bullet has nothing to do with crimping and seating in one step. It is from insufficient case mouth bell.
Increase the bell, ~and~ gently chamfer the inside of the case mouth and you'll not see that again.

I hand loaded for nearly 30 years before I ever heard of crimping in a separate step. Now I do it both ways. If all my brass is the same length I seat and crimp in one step. If it varies enough to affect the crimp I seat first then crimp by feel using a separate crimp die with the lock ring left loose.

I've found zero difference in seating and crimping in one step, or separate steps.

Joe

 

[DennisE]

Expanded the case mouth slowly until problem disappeared. Thanks all, Dennis

 

[Steve Myers]

I get this on occassion. usually when I put a heavy crimp on, which I usually do on all 44 Spc/Mag loads. Never really worried about it as it doesn't seem to bother accuracy. As stated elsewhere, trimming OAL, or slight die adjustments would/should fix it. But I am inherently lazy and never figured that 1/2" spread b/n bullets for a .430" bullet would make a hill of beans difference! I'm not shooting benchrest...