Have you "unconverted" a converted Old Model?

[rboineau]

Have a chance to buy an Old Model Super that had been sent back decades ago to Ruger for their transfer bar conversion. Old action parts come with gun. When I re-install the original parts will the gun be as good as new or would Ruger's conversion work have somehow diminished the gun as far as tolerances, accuracy go? I don't know if much if any fitting was required during the conversion so am concerned that maybe some file strokes or some such occurred that may now leave the re-installed parts sloppy--or something.

Thanks for any info. Regards, Ralph Boineau in central South Carolina.

 

[SteveRuger]

They ( the old model internal parts Ruger removed) go back in just fine & they will operate the same as they did before the were replaced with the conversions parts.

 

[No-1]

Won't be exactly unconverted - I've heard they stamped the frame when they were converted.

 

[WIL TERRY]

Actually, the guns will LOSE some tightness and fitting when you convert it back to the old system. The new system was tighter and to the last one of my guns I had converted [ i sent a dozen a week for months on end ] all were tighter, better fit, and some FEW [ ENOUGH TO AMAZE ME HOW MUCH !! ] shot better. Only one came back slightly goofy and worse off than it was when sent. I never cease to be tickled about all the whining about the the Ruger SA conversions when the OVERWHELMING majority of the bitchers and whiners have never seen nor used one. The conversion system is startingly better than a NEW MODEL Blackhawk or NM Single Six etc, most of which are lose-as-a-goose like the original OM 3-screw sixguns.

 

[contender]

Swap the OM parts back in & enjoy the gun as it was made to be used. "Load one, Skip one, Load four."

 

[mat523]

Won't be exactly unconverted - I've heard they stamped the frame when they were converted.

They do stamp the revolver with an R.

 

[contender]

Yes, they do stamp the mainframe. BUT it's on the bottom, and sandwiched between the mainframe & grip frame. Not visible when assembled.

 

[Hondo44]

Ralph,

I concur with the above about: the gun is not modified at all (except for the R). And since you have the original parts that were in your gun before, they are fitted to it and will work just as good as when they were removed.

Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to swap back and get that "real' Super BH wide hammer back in it.

 

[rboineau]

I thank you gentlemen for your replies to my post.

Jim's (Hondo44) reply was particularly interesting, as I understand it. Had no idea the conversion parts for a Super did not include a wide-spur hammer, which is probably my favorite feature of the original Super. I like it so much it makes me wish Ruger had offered a similar wide-spur hammer as an option for the regular Blackhawk and Super Single Six too!

Regards, Ralph Boineau in central South Carolina

 

[kendak]

my 1968 SBH was converted in June of 1983 ..packed it in Alaska & when I got home I put it back to old style & chopped the barrel to 5 1/2" ...have shot countless rds. through it since then & I carry it with a full load of 6 ...23grs. 2400 behind a 240gr JHP will do a number on anything I ever shot ...take care

 

[Hondo44]

Ralph,
Forgive me if this is something you may already know, but a Super hammer is a drop in swap on any of the other Ruger mid-frame and large frame Vaqueros and Blackhawks. I have installed a Super hammer in a single six but a lot of trimming is required to make it look right.

Super hammer and grip frame on a Super Single Six:

The .22 Bisley hammer swap is a lot easier but does take a little trimming in the standard, non-Bisley grip frame. .22 Bisley hammer with modified spur in a .22 Super SS:

 

[WIL TERRY]

my 1968 SBH was converted in June of 1983 ..packed it in Alaska & when I got home I put it back to old style & chopped the barrel to 5 1/2" ...have shot countless rds. through it since then & I carry it with a full load of 6 ...23grs. 2400 behind a 240gr JHP will do a number on anything I ever shot ...take care

LET ME UNDERSTAND YOU CORRECTLY, you are carrying a Superhawk 44MAg with the old style 3-screw action in place [ no conversion unit ] and you are carrying it with six[6] cartridges, including a live one under the hammer ?? IS that correct, sir ?

 

[SATCOM]

Ralph,

Reconverted Ruger OM are as good as new with no adverse effects. With the correct size/quality screw drivers it is a pretty straight forward procedure. I learned how to do it by first learning how to take apart and reassemble a OM Single Six. From there OM Blackhawks and Supers are exactly the same procedures. I have several OM Blackhawks in .41 Mag that I have added different gripframes, screws, and Super hammers. Taking apart and reassembling OMs when required is now fun. I also do cleaning and polishing (NO files! NO stones) of internals and that of course requires disassembly.

OM Super hammers used to be available at reasonable prices but not for the last few years. A complete set of internals for a Super is $180-200 now days.

Why a wide spur hammer did not come with conversions was odd but must have been cost.

SATCOM

 

[Hondo44]

OM disassembly/re-assembly description:

Ruger doesn't have an OM video except for the Old Army reassembly video which has the same lock work.
http://www.ruger.com/resources/videos.html?vidID=005039

 

[BearBio]

This may be sacrilegious but I've recently been focusing on OM Blackhawks. Only one, my 41 Magnum, has been converted. I really can't tell the difference and I do prefer carrying 6 in it.

 

[Bob Wright]

Actually, the guns will LOSE some tightness and fitting when you convert it back to the old system. The new system was tighter and to the last one of my guns I had converted [ i sent a dozen a week for months on end ] all were tighter, better fit, and some FEW [ ENOUGH TO AMAZE ME HOW MUCH !! ] shot better. Only one came back slightly goofy and worse off than it was when sent. I never cease to be tickled about all the whining about the the Ruger SA conversions when the OVERWHELMING majority of the bitchers and whiners have never seen nor used one. The conversion system is startingly better than a NEW MODEL Blackhawk or NM Single Six etc, most of which are lose-as-a-goose like the original OM 3-screw sixguns.

I am one of the whiners who prefer to un-convert the conversions. I've had experience with three, one a Super Blackhawk that I sent back to the factory for a new barrel, the other two were .357 Magnums that I bought used that had already been converted and neither of which had the original parts.

The Super Blackhawk, in addition to being ugly when cocked, had the propensity of skipping a chamber as the hammer was cocked, and had an unpleasant "clackety-clack" sound as the hammer was cocked. Ruger returned my original parts, which I promptly replaced.

The two .357 Magnum Blackhawks had terrible trigger pulls, feeling like maybe eight pounds, with considerable creep. And too, the "clackety-clack" sound as the hammer was cocked. I was able to find original parts and un-converted these. One was converted to a .44 Special, which has become my everyday carry gun.

I prefer the three screw guns simply because it gives me the same loading/ejecting as my other single actions. I do have some New Models, which have been made into some fine guns. Don't really object to the transfer bar, just those that were an after thought.

Bob Wright

 

[Hondo44]

Bob,
+1
I worked on a converted OM single six for a friend who wanted to retain the safety retrofit so his grandkids could load and unload easier like the OMs and could use the gun safely. It took a huge amount of tuning and action work for it to have a decent trigger pull and so the kids could cock the hammer. It works well now but in retrospect I should have advised him to just get a new model.

As you say the new models work much better out of the box although they too can benefit from an upgrade to the New Vaquero and Flat top model indexing pawl system, so they will load and unload like the OMs and the hammer isn't ugly when cocked. And with Ruger's indexing pawl and free spin cyl pawl installed, even the NM .22s can load like OMs!

 

[xtratoy]

Won't be exactly unconverted - I've heard they stamped the frame when they were converted.

My 41 mag didn't have any stamped marking on the cylinder frame that are typically covered by the grip frame when I un-converted it. I didn't have any marks on my Single Six either.

 

[xtratoy]

Actually, the guns will LOSE some tightness and fitting when you convert it back to the old system. The new system was tighter and to the last one of my guns I had converted [ i sent a dozen a week for months on end ] all were tighter, better fit, and some FEW [ ENOUGH TO AMAZE ME HOW MUCH !! ] shot better. Only one came back slightly goofy and worse off than it was when sent. I never cease to be tickled about all the whining about the the Ruger SA conversions when the OVERWHELMING majority of the bitchers and whiners have never seen nor used one. The conversion system is startingly better than a NEW MODEL Blackhawk or NM Single Six etc, most of which are lose-as-a-goose like the original OM 3-screw sixguns.

Both guns I un-converted had noticeably better feeling triggers with the original parts. The conversion triggers were heavy and gritty feeling. I was lucky to pick up guns that were either never shot after the conversions or shot only once due to the inferior feeling triggers. That way I got OM's that didn't have the turn ring that OM's with the conversion develop. I never thought to check for tightness issues.

 

[Hondo44]

Won't be exactly unconverted - I've heard they stamped the frame when they were converted.

My 41 mag didn't have any stamped marking on the cylinder frame that are typically covered by the grip frame when I un-converted it. I didn't have any marks on my Single Six either.

Yes there are occasions when the R was not stamped, most likely an oversight when converted at the factory.

The other possibility is with used guns when someone needs a hard to find set of original parts. Someone has scavenged the original parts, installed a second hand transfer bar kit and resold the gun. Those will not have the R stamped of course.

Neither will used guns taken in on trade by some gun stores who convert an OM by installing used transfer kit parts to limit their liability and sell the gun as a "safe" converted gun. Then turn around and sell the original parts on E-bay to make another $100 or so.

 

[xtratoy]

Both of my guns came from the original owners with the bag of parts.

 

[Hondo44]

xtratoy,

Clearly the first case then. Just didn't get stamped by Ruger. They may have been sent back at the same time when a "new" guy who did them in the retrofit dept. forgot to stamp, couldn't find a stamp, or maybe just lazy.

There's two main rules when it comes to guns and gun collecting; never say never and never say always.

 

[flatgate]

Will,
You can always take a horse to water but you very rarely can get him to drink.

Mr. Bear Bait, er, excuse me, Bear Bio, may I trouble you one more time? Have you ever considered actually reading the Sturm, Ruger & Company's "Operators Manuals" that came with your revolvers? I strongly suggest you do, ASAP.
Your Life is on the Line.

Sincerely,
Forum Owner, Flatgate

 

[ArmedinAZ]

Swap the OM parts back in & enjoy the gun as it was made to be used. "Load one, Skip one, Load four."

Question: (please forgive my ignorance, not a big revolver guy here) Disregarding some disagreement about whether the trigger pull is better before or after, why is it more enjoyable to have a pistol with 5 rounds loaded instead of 6? I've owned and greatly enjoyed a .22 NM Single Six since '80 and never knew I was missing something.

In the near future my father-in-law is sending me his '73 Bearcat (converted) along with the original parts. Maybe I'll shoot it both ways and see if I can feel a difference.

thanks

 

[Hondo44]

ArmedinAZ,

There are no ignorant questions, they are all mostly valid because we all come here to learn. So if everyone knew everything we'd have no membership.

The 5 round safety rule is basically for carrying the revolver. While plinking and target shooting or hunting from a stationary position, 6 can be used safely.

The old model Bearcats converted with the retrofit kit are exactly like new models. Converted & new model Bearcats are like all other converted Ruger single action models. But the other Ruger New Models have a completely different action from converted old models and much better actions.

The Bearcat may not give one a good perspective of the difference. But I had one converted so the grandkids could have an extra margin of safety if they dropped it and also to get the wide spur hammer that the old models didn't have. The action was worse and the springs were so stiff, I did a lot of tuning to make it acceptable.

 

[ArmedinAZ]

Thanks! Sounds like I should let the Bearcat as is.

About the 5 round safety rule, it seems like there's more possibility to drop a pistol when plinking and target shooting; loading, unloading, picking it up, putting it on a table, etc. than when carrying. When carrying you load it up, put it in a holster and don't pull it unless you're going to shoot it. Not arguing against safety, just seems like the thinking is reversed, plus you're only carrying 5 instead of 6 for hunting or protection. 6 in a safer gun vs 5 in a gun the way it was meant to be, unless the trigger pull is just horrible in the converted gun 6 would seem the better choice. Again, no revolver guy so I'm surely missing something.

thanks again.

 

[Hondo44]

It's not from 'the thinking' it's from reading the law suits against Ruger when people shot themselves or others. It could but usually doesn't happen the way you speculate. I don't recall any cases involving plinking or at a range. Of course it always seems to involve other safety carelessness as well, like getting out of a hunting vehicle with a loaded gun, dropping a stirrup that hits the hammer when hunting using horses, etc.