H110 and Cast Boolits

[Chief_10Beers]

Without a GC. Anyone loads H110 and Cast? What have been your experiances...........................

 

[Cracker-American]

First let me say I am still very early in the learning curve regarding reloading.

I load 215 grain .41 and 240 grain .44 a lot. Both are bevel base (bought 500 of each before I knew better) Keith style bullets with a Bhn of 18+/-.

I use H110 exclusively and find that out of my Ruger BH and SBH I get better accuracy than I am a shooter and no leading to speak of.

 

[Hammerdown77]

I've only loaded H110 with non-gas check cast bullets. Works like a champ, no leading in my guns (.45, .44)

 

[Chief 101]

Not a problem with hardcast..dunno about softer boolits as I have never tried.

 

[Dale53]

I have shot over ten thousand .44 Magnum bullets (at .44 Magnum velocities) using H110 or Win 296 with NO problems - excellent accuracy and no leading.

For me, it is THE great combination (home cast bullets with H110).

Dale53

 

[Bucks Owin]

I'm with Dale, and have shot a great many .44 RCBS 250K bullets ahead of W296 in .44 mag. Especially like that powder in heavy .45 LC "Linebaugh loads"...
FWIW, SR4759 is another favorite at my bench in those calibers...

I've come to find GCs aren't as "mandatory" as I once thought for cast handgun bullets, and I look for bullet designs that are plain base when I can. They don't always fit well (.44 310 Lee comes to mind), and are an added expense and bother. I expect they are helpful and act as a "band aid" for bullets that aren't a great fit or are of the wrong BHN sometimes ....

 

[Chief_10Beers]

Chief 101 mentioned useing Hard Cast. What would be the Minimum BN Hardness for use with H110/W296......................................

 

[Chief 101]

Chief 101 mentioned useing Hard Cast. What would be the Minimum BN Hardness for use with H110/W296......................................

For many years I used wheel weights and that worked fine...then about the mid 70's I found a load of Linotype and added some of that to the mix. That is when I started shooting rifle bullets, that worked well with the harder alloy. If ww are the same alloy today as they were then you would be fine. I never got scientific about my casting lead, mix a batch and try it out, if it worked I would make ingots. I didn't get very scientific about lube either, if I could find some I'd buy it if not I would mix beeswax, paraffin and STP and pour it in the sizer. Size and weight is where I got picky. Just a short note,
Chief aka Maxx Load

 

[Bucks Owin]

Chief 101 mentioned useing Hard Cast. What would be the Minimum BN Hardness for use with H110/W296......................................

Stay tuned Chief. Gonna replace the dead battery in my old Cherokee this weekend so I can get to my "range" next week. (Requires 4WD :wink: )
I'm itching to shoot a couple different cast loads I've cooked up this winter, including a comparison of air cooled vs water dropped WW bullets in .45LC ahead of W296, HS-6 and SR4759. Got some .30/30 and .45/70 cast to play with too...

Ahhh...powder burnin' at last, weather permitting...( and it's been real nice lately)

The "range" :wink:

 

[Chief_10Beers]

One other thing, how heavy of a crimp do you use with the Cast Boolit? Would it be less than a Jacketed Bullet?.......................................

 

[Chief 101]

One other thing, how heavy of a crimp do you use with the Cast Boolit? Would it be less than a Jacketed Bullet?.......................................

I use as much crimp as I can without deforming the case.

I have used a lot of SR 4759 over the years with cast rifle cartridges but never in revolver stuff. I like the idea, where do I find info on charge rates for the 44 mag? Chief aka Maxx Load

 

[SBH4628]

Chief 101 mentioned useing Hard Cast. What would be the Minimum BN Hardness for use with H110/W296......................................

Stay tuned Chief. Gonna replace the dead battery in my old Cherokee this weekend so I can get to my "range" next week. (Requires 4WD :wink: )
I'm itching to shoot a couple different cast loads I've cooked up this winter, including a comparison of air cooled vs water dropped WW bullets in .45LC ahead of W296, HS-6 and SR4759. Got some .30/30 and .45/70 cast to play with too...

Ahhh...powder burnin' at last, weather permitting...( and it's been real nice lately)

The "range" :wink:

I like your range Dennis,looks peaceful :wink: Got room on that Jeep hood for me and a few more guns? Enjoy your shoot Amigo

 

[wheezengeezer]

Chief 101 mentioned useing Hard Cast. What would be the Minimum BN Hardness for use with H110/W296......................................

A good read. http://www.lasc.us/FryxellCBAlloyObturation.htm I have loaded full power H110 loads behind various cast plain base bullets for 29 years.Most were cast from plain wheelweights.Some had tin added.Some were a softer alloy than WW.The bullet lube had more effect on leading as anything else.

 

[Bucks Owin]

One other thing, how heavy of a crimp do you use with the Cast Boolit? Would it be less than a Jacketed Bullet?.......................................

That's not easily answered IMO Chief, but as a rule of thumb stick with firm crimps on any bullet until you've got some experience/"feel" with the issue. Personally, I neither flare or crimp excessively, as repeated resizing of those cases will give you split mouths from overworking the brass. Some loads, eg a case loaded to the gunnels with H-110 will require a firm crimp (and case tension!) to both "light the fire" properly and to keep the bullets from jumping under recoil. Some milder loads with faster powder and with sufficient case tension, get no crimp at all in my sixguns...It just depends.

Certainly crimping the case until the case bulges is overkill and can actually loosen the bullet even though it "looks" like the crimp should have a death grip on the bullet! What happens is that the case walls buckle away from the bullet slightly and loosens the case grip on the bullet but one generally doesn't get quite that ham handed without knowing it...:lol:

Here's the drill for nice consistant crimping:

First of all, trim all cases to the same length! Otherwise the whole point is moot...

Seat bullet until the case mouth aligns with the TOP of the crimp groove...

Adjust crimp to get a nice "fold" into the bottom of the groove but no more. Don't crimp until you're digging into the bullet as some do, marring/distorting is not needed IMHO...(A shallow cannellure on a jacketed bullet and a nice deep crimp groove on a cast bullet are not the same thing!)

DO YOUR CRIMPING AS A SEPERATE OPERATION FROM BULLET SEATING....You'll get best results

Enjoy!


Kinda windy but that's my method and I hope I've helped Chief

 

[WESHOOT2]

I find my Redding Profile Crimp dies allow me to firmly crimp lead bullets properly.

 

[Paul B]

First off, W-296 and H-110 are the same powder with different labels. Usually different lots as well. I've had good resuslts with 24.0 gr. of W-296 and a 250 gr. plain based keith style SWC as well as a similar styled SWC with gas check. Both shoot very nicely. I use a firm crimp tyo insure good burning and to make sure a bullet doesn't jump th crimp tying up the gun. The gun is carried when hiking in Black Bear and Mountain Lion country which is only about 20 miles from my front door.
Paul B.

 

[Dale53]

Paul B;
Your statement is pretty much correct and I have been using these powders (H110, Win 296, and WC 820) for many, many years with EXCELLENT results in my .44 Magnums. As I have mentioned here before, 23.0 grs behind a 250 gr Keith is my practice load (a bit easier on my revolvers) and 24.0 grs is my hunting load. It measures like water, burns cleanly, and shoots VERY well.

However, a good crimp, while necessary, is NO substitute for adequate bullet pull. It is important to have the expander stem on your reloading dies at least .004" smaller than the diameter of your cast bullet to give best results. Failure to have enough bullet pull can result in poor ignition and, worst case, result in hang fires.

So, I would respectfully add, proper case neck tension AND a good crimp is necessary for best results.

Dale53

 

[Bucks Owin]

First off, W-296 and H-110 are the same powder with different labels. Usually different lots as well.
Paul B.

I've heard that before, yet I've seen them side by side on the same data sheet showing different ballistics, with (usually) W296 being "slightly" hotter. Maybe as you say, it just depends on the lot....
( FWIW, John Linebaugh mentions getting the odd slow can of H110)

 

[Dale53]

Bucks Owin;
Now that Hodgdon is distributing both H110 AND Win 296 They show the same data. They are now the same powder. Before, they were the same powder but acted like different lots. Now they are both "adjusted" to both give the same ballistics.

Dale53

 

[WESHOOT2]

'cough' W295.....

But it's 2011 now; H110 = W296

 

[Bucks Owin]

Bucks Owin;
Now that Hodgdon is distributing both H110 AND Win 296 They show the same data. They are now the same powder. Before, they were the same powder but acted like different lots. Now they are both "adjusted" to both give the same ballistics.

Dale53

Thanks Dale. Have some W296 loads to chrono this week, some loaded with powder thats been kicking around for 30+ years (in some WIDE temperature extremes!) against an identical charge from a fresh purchase. I'm betting I won't be able to detect any difference... :wink:

 

[Dale53]

Bucks Owin;
You are doing EXACTLY what a prudent handloader SHOULD. Check an old lot against the new lot (using exactly the same components loaded exactly the same way) then you will KNOW.

When I started using WC820. I compared it with H110 that I had been loading for some time. My particular lot of WC 820 (an early lot) was within ½ grain of H110 (in the .44 Magnum). That enabled me to load with confidence.

A chronograph is NOT a pressure gun. However, if the same amount of a similar powder gives the same velocity, you can pretty much depend that the pressures are the same. However, interpolation can be deceptive. You really ought to do the same with each caliber you load for - there may be a distinct difference in how they react to different calibers. I am NOT a ballistician, however, in talking with a number of ballisticians over the years, I was able to learn a good bit as to how things work in the REAL world. Keep in mind - when working internal ballistics, "logic" does NOT always apply.

Dale53

 

[Donaldjr1969]

I find my Redding Profile Crimp dies allow me to firmly crimp lead bullets properly.

I was given that advice from a fellow RF member here. I will be ordering the Redding Profiler die to go with my Lee dies once I get set up to finally start to reload. Since I am going to be reloading 44 Magnum, that Redding die is probably even more of a good investment rather than depend on crimping and seating from the Lee 3-die set.

 

[wheezengeezer]

First off, W-296 and H-110 are the same powder with different labels. Usually different lots as well.
Paul B.

I've heard that before, yet I've seen them side by side on the same data sheet showing different ballistics, with (usually) W296 being "slightly" hotter. Maybe as you say, it just depends on the lot....
( FWIW, John Linebaugh mentions getting the odd slow can of H110)

I have seen them in the same manual also.But the top loads had different velocities and pressures.

 

[tek4260]

Doesn't the Lee set come with the FCD? Mine is a 4 die set, so I guess the 3 die wouldn't have it. I use it to taper crimp all my loads. I have never seen the need for a roll crimp. Of course everything I load is heavy and has lots of bullet in the case which helps.

 

[WESHOOT2]

I have 'jumped crimp' in testing, using conventional crimping methods (and unconventional loads).
I have not had any occurrence when using the Redding die.

EXCEPTION: I was unable to secure 230g Golden Saber bullets in 45 Colt cases when launching them with any vigor, regardless of securing method (I did not test any adhesives, though).

The Redding Profile Crimp die has also proven itself to enhance accuracy and ballistic uniformity.

 

[Bucks Owin]

EXCEPTION: I was unable to secure 230g Golden Saber bullets in 45 Colt cases when launching them with any vigor, regardless of securing method (I did not test any adhesives, though).

Crimp over ogive?

 

[WESHOOT2]

These were customer-driven specific-goal loads, and I tried even wild stuff.
I tried modified and custom dies, both size and crimp.
I made neck-size dies.
I tested bullets seated at various OALs with case and/or crimp rolled completely over the shoulder.
I tried other stuff.

There was a very high performance goal for these cartridges of the not-for-games sort.
I tried everything except adhesives.
But when the other performance goals were met, the bullets moved.

It ended with me using different bullets, and changing the pricing structure to the customer. One of my very few of what I consider failures.