Gun education plan maybe have gone astray

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JFB

Hunter
Joined
Sep 7, 2005
Messages
2,091
Location
Eastern Piedmont NC
As the local gun nut, I had been taken on the task of introducing my young nephews to guns.

Started by letting them shoot my 22's and 410's to see how they were handling things

First got them youth 1022's.
Then when I thought they could handle it, got them youth 20G BPS's with a case of low recoil.
Then some time latter it was the Bearcats with a case of CCI Quites.

Figuring they would soon be ready for center fire hunting rifles, so about a weeks ago let them try my 77 with low recoil 308.

Today I HEARED that their Parents went ahead and got them hunting rifles.
So I went over to see what they were shooting.

A 14YO, less than 90 pounds with a full length, light weight stock in 30-06!
:shock:
 
JFB said:
As the local gun nut, I had been taken on the task of introducing my young nephews to guns.

Started by letting them shoot my 22's and 410's to see how they were handling things

First got them youth 1022's.
Then when I thought they could handle it, got them youth 20G BPS's with a case of low recoil.
Then some time latter it was the Bearcats with a case of CCI Quites.

Figuring they would soon be ready for center fire hunting rifles, so about a weeks ago let them try my 77 with low recoil 308.

Today I HEARED that their Parents went ahead and got them hunting rifles.
So I went over to see what they were shooting.

A 14YO, less than 90 pounds with a full length, light weight stock in 30-06!
:shock:
Click to expand...


I've seen this happen many times. Folks come to me with firearms questions. I'll share everything I own so they can ultimately make good choices. Then at the end they buy something that is completely contrary to my suggestions. :mrgreen:
 
Don't worry about it.
A 14 year old will think scope eye is cool!
On the other hand, the parents not so much.
 
My youngest son killed his first deer with my Ruger #1 270 with 150gr bullets at 8 years old, when I asked him if the gun kicked much he said that he didn't notice it. So if there is hair in the scope it might not matter but sighting the rifle in might cause a Hugh flinch.
 
I get very little actual time shooting with them.

But my concern yesterday was his stance would not let him use a scope. Way too far back. (I did think he could probably use a pistol scope :( )

with his open sight 1022 at 25 yards standing he can put them in a 4" circle. his "sighting in" yesterday was 24" shooting prone at 25 yard
 
A friend asked me to teach his kid gun safety. Said he had the guns needed, I told I'd have some too. He INSISTED his 8 or 9 year old shoot his 12g. I tried my best to dissuade him with no luck. The kid took a shot. It rocked his world and I could see the tears welling up as he said it was "fun." His ad asked if wanted to shoot some more and there was a resounding "NO" and more interest in getting back to my house and the archery range.

I saw his shooting future fading and I could NOT let this happen. I talked the kid into shooting a .22. With much fear in his eyes he took a shot. He grinned and started having fun. After quite a few rounds and lots of discussion I got him to keep trying slightly larger guns. When the time came to try a 20g, he looked a lot apprehensive, but I had earned his trust and had some seriously light loads in it. He didn't get beat up and shot it a few times. He is now almost thirty and a regular shooter.
 
.

I've seen it countless times............There's no arguing with "stupid".

IME, some Dads are too macho to be teaching youngsters how to shoot, starting them off with a gun that has a loud blast & unwarranted (for a youngster) recoil - not to mention stock/gun fit.

IDK if they enjoy that their child isn't up to what the Dad can do, or they want the child to "man up".


.
 
Just for the record. A 12 with low recoil loads will kick less than a 20. It is had to find light loads for a 20.
Grandson was 10 when this picture was taken while shooting CAS. His pistols are 32s and the rifle is a Marlin 38 Carbine with a cut down stock. He was Virginia State Buckaroo Champion at 8 Years Old


A little Black Powder.
 
When I was in Hunter Ed, on range day I ran the rifle shooting portion. More than once some dad would interject and disagree with my teaching. A couple got really nasty. I let then rant and then asked them if they wanted their child to pass or fail the course. Naturally they'd say pass. Then I would politely tell them that I am the instructor and I am teaching it in the manner specified by Game & Fish. If you have a problem with it, take it up with them. Continue to countermand my instructions will only result in your child's failure. Usually shut them up fast.
I would run into the same thing during classroom sessions. Informing them that I'm teaching from the state approved manual and that any test will be on what was taught from that manual will decide pass or failure.
Paul B.
 
I've talked with people who want their kids to start shooting 12 gauge shotguns. Regardless of recoil they are usually big heavy guns. (Not big and heavy for someone used to shooting....but to new shooters they are.)

I've introduced a few people to shooting, some who have never held a gun. It's strictly 22's. I have a Henry, a couple 10/22's and a variety of single sixes. Mostly for the bakery purpose of new shooters.
 
at age 12 I had a Winchester Model 97, fixed frame riot barrel with a Lyman screw on choke tube adapter on the short barrel. It kicked but I learned how to shoot it really well. Still my favorite shotgun for turkey hunting with.
 
I started at 14 with a Savage 110 in 30-06 shooting 180 gr. Remingtons as that was dad's load too. I probably weighed all of 90 lbs. also. I don't recall It hurting me any.
 
As a person who has instructed several hundred ladies, kids & all to shoot their first gun, or to learn proper gun handling,,, it appalls me when I see ANY macho type put a kicking firearm into the hands of a new shooter. Guys with kids, girlfriends, wives, etc. Then they laugh when the recoil hurts them. MANY are the potential shooters turned off about guns because of their stupidity.
Sadly, I've even seen it in trained instructors,,, who felt that the .22 RF was too small to start anyone off with.
When we were babies,, we crawled before we walked & walked before we ran. Introduce new shooters safely, carefully, without a negative experience, and then they can graduate to bigger & more powerful at their pace. Many will find it's fun & want more,,, AFTER they get over the initial first tries.
 
I was a 115# teenager when I killed my first deer. Back then there were only two kinds of deer rifle: lever action 30/30 and 30/06 pump (according to MY family anyway) and Dad didn't care for "hammer guns". That 06 kicked the snot out of me with every shot so I did my best not to miss causing extra shots.
No way would I do that to a beginning shooter with all the options these days.
 
Kevin said:
I've talked with people who want their kids to start shooting 12 gauge shotguns. Regardless of recoil they are usually big heavy guns. (Not big and heavy for someone used to shooting....but to new shooters they are.)

I've introduced a few people to shooting, some who have never held a gun. It's strictly 22's. I have a Henry, a couple 10/22's and a variety of single sixes. Mostly for the bakery purpose of new shooters.
Click to expand...

Kevin,
Maybe you need to look at my posted picture of my Grandson shooting a 12 GA. It is not a big heavy gun. A 20" barrel SXS with a cut down stock.But they do have enough weight to dampen the very light recoil when shooting Low recoil, low noise Winchester Featherlites. The single barrel 20GA would knock the crap out of him. Most all the women that shoot CAS use a 12 ga double with Featherlites for a reason,
Yea you put a 3" 00 buck in a 12 GA and I guarantee it will get your attention. So don't do it.
The problems as I see it with kids is the stock doesn't fit them (to long) and with a rifle or shotgun the barrel is to long so it puts to much weight forward for them to hold up. That is the reason I cut down a stock for the Marlin 357 Carbine and the SXS. You can get the recoil down with the proper load but if the gun doesn't fit you got a problem. Think center of gravity :wink:

By the way I hunted squirrels with an old 12ga of my Grandfathers when I was 8-9 years. Yes it was to heavy to carry all day long hunting rabbits so that is when my Grandfather bought me the 20 GA single barrel that my Grandson now has.

What I hunted with before the 20 GA.


 
Sorry Jim, but on this I just have to disagree with you. I teach 3rd 4th and 5th grade. In 3rd grade they are 8 and 9 years old. Holding a long gun puts the center of gravity too far out for a kid that sized, and it would not be comfortable. I appreciate the fact you say he couldn't hold the gun all day. But also the recoil would simply be too much. Even a cut down stock in length still has the same heights of stock, what would that be? 5 inches or so? Their shoulders are not that big.

The gun just wouldn't fit them. Sorry, but I do see these kids every day. Perhaps if they were 11 or 12 years old....
 
Kevin said:
Sorry Jim, but on this I just have to disagree with you. I teach 3rd 4th and 5th grade. In 3rd grade they are 8 and 9 years old. Holding a long gun puts the center of gravity too far out for a kid that sized, and it would not be comfortable. I appreciate the fact you say he couldn't hold the gun all day. But also the recoil would simply be too much. Even a cut down stock in length still has the same heights of stock, what would that be? 5 inches or so? Their shoulders are not that big.

The gun just wouldn't fit them. Sorry, but I do see these kids every day. Perhaps if they were 11 or 12 years old....
Click to expand...

Well I just don't understand How my Grandson became the CAS VA. State Champ at just turning 9 years old shooting the Marlin 357 Carbine, 32s and a 12GA SXS. Yes as I stated a kid CAN NOT HOLD A LONG BARRELED RIFLE or SXS. As you can see from the pictures he isn't a big kid. Maybe just tougher than the ones you know. :wink:
Apparently you must not reload if so you would know that you can load rounds that have very little to no recoil. That is not the problem.
By the way I couldn't carry the 12 GA all day NOT HOLD it all day.
 
Holding a long gun puts the center of gravity too far out for a kid that sized, and it would not be comfortable.
Click to expand...



Kevin,
You say your kids can't shoot a rifle because they are to big or heavy. If that is the case you might look into the Cricket Youth Single Shot 22. Also Henry makes a youth Lever Action 22 that is VERY nice. Other Grandfather bought Grandson a Cricket for his 7th birthday. I gave him a Henry Youth for his 8th birthday and that was his CAS practice rifle.
There are rifles that fit Kids.
Here are some videos of Little Kids shooting the Cricket

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=ymyy-t-999&p=youth+22+rifle+cricket#id=2&vid=06cac356589fd18ecbf0f988ade1de4e&action=view

Review of the $119.99 Cricket
https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/crickett-youth-22-lr-single-shot-bolt-action-rifle
 
I have no doubts about a 7-8-9 year old can safely handle a gun. You just need to tailor the initial training to the kid and then up the anty as they get used to it.

Starting out big and bad is a recipe for disaster.
 
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