Full House Magnum

[Chief_10Beers]

Without going into boring details, I made up ( What I thought ) some (12 rounds ) full house Magnum Loads: 16.5gr H-110, CCI SPM and Hornady XTP .357 158gr JHP and a heavy crimp. Shot them all up, had a little kick and no unburnt Powder. Then I shot some ( 50 rounds ) Idependent and Magtek .357 Magnum 158gr JFP, now that is what I call a kick. According to the reload manuals I have, Max load is 16.7gr of H-110 for this Bullet except for Lymans 49 edition which they call out for 17.0gr of H-110. Should I load close to the Lymans or look for different Power.........................

 

[GP100man]

Cheif

Stick with published loads !!

The ammo industry uses "blended" powders & burn rates are different than anything available to handloaders!!!

H-110 is a slow ball powder & does`nt "peak" in pressure as fast as most powders in handgun applicatins thus the preception of reduced recoil.

I use IMR4227 in my heavy boolit 44 loads because I precieve recoil as a gentler push instead of a snappy jerk.

Hope this helps !!

 

[contender]

I fully agree that you should stick with published data.
Also,, the above advice about different powders in factory ammo vs us poor reloaders is correct.
We do not have the info on factory powders,, so we have to follow published safe data. That said,, you can try different powders to get different results. A chronograph is a very important tool in working up hot loads,, and testing both your ammo & factory stuff. However,, one thing most of us can not afford is a pressure testing device. There is where the serious dangers can be. Overpressurization.
But,, if you want harder recoiling ammo,, then start experimenting with different powders,, ALL within the safe data published. You will notice differences in some of them.
In fact,, if you want to see definate differences,, take a loading manuel,, see what the top powder on the chart is,, and then look at the bottom powder. One will be fastest burning one & the other the slowest burning one. Try these two extremes & you'll see differences in felt recoil.

 

[Divernhunter]

Better yet get a Chronograph and run the loads thru it to see what they actually are doing. Then you will really know the loads.

 

[Chief_10Beers]

I fully agree that you should stick with published data.
Also,, the above advice about different powders in factory ammo vs us poor reloaders is correct.
We do not have the info on factory powders,, so we have to follow published safe data. That said,, you can try different powders to get different results. A chronograph is a very important tool in working up hot loads,, and testing both your ammo & factory stuff. However,, one thing most of us can not afford is a pressure testing device. There is where the serious dangers can be. Overpressurization.
But,, if you want harder recoiling ammo,, then start experimenting with different powders,, ALL within the safe data published. You will notice differences in some of them.
In fact,, if you want to see definate differences,, take a loading manuel,, see what the top powder on the chart is,, and then look at the bottom powder. One will be fastest burning one & the other the slowest burning one. Try these two extremes & you'll see differences in felt recoil.

I have no intention of busting publish data, I was mainly asking about the Lymans data which has a .3gr (17gr) higher than hodgdon's (16.7gr)data.
I sure would like to get my paws on the recipie that the Ammo Mfg. use......................

 

[pps]

My lymann 48th has 17.0 with this powder/bullet. This is a published load. Lyman seems to lean towards the conservative side.

You ARE shooting it out of a Ruger right?

Any pressure signs?

 

[Jimbo357mag]

If you think Mag Tech has kick try some Federal or Winchester. They are much snappier. As noted before a slow powder like H-110 has a big push and higher velocity. HP-38 or W-231 will give you more kick for the same velocity.

Hodgdon website: H-110 --- 16.7gr --- 1591fps --- 40,700 CUP
You won't hardly find any faster velocity.
I shoot 15.0gr with that 158gr XTP bullet.

...Jimbo

 

[paul105]

For what it's worth, back in 2006 I chronographed the 158gr Magtech factory load and a handload consisting of a 158gr XTP and 15.5gr of H110 from a 4" S&W M19.

At 5 paces from the muzzle and 75 deg F:

Magtech 1,191 fps, ES 84 fps
H110 Handload 1,194 fps, ES 80 fps

My notes don't indicate any difference in recoil.

Paul

 

[dougader]

You never know what powder a company uses for their ammo.

One of the more heavier recoiling loads I ever shot was a remanufactured round from a local guy. I asked him about it the next time I saw him at a guy show. He told me he just uses a max load of Unique in that particular load.

Across the chrony, my handloads with either Blue Dot or H110 had considerably more velocity than the other guy's re-mfg stuff.

Individual perception of felt recoil really doesn't mean much imo.

 

[Chief_10Beers]

My lymann 48th has 17.0 with this powder/bullet. This is a published load. Lyman seems to lean towards the conservative side.

You ARE shooting it out of a Ruger right?

Any pressure signs?

GP-100 and no pressure signs............................

 

[Rick Courtright]

I sure would like to get my paws on the recipie that the Ammo Mfg. use......................

Hi, Chief

Hate to be the wet blanket, but 'tain't gonna happen!

The factories load powders we can't get. We had a discussion recently on that subject, but the highlight is they test a large lot (carload?) and develop a load that works. When that bunch of powder's used up, they repeat the process... so Lot A and Lot B may exhibit identical ballistics, but when you open 'em up there could be a significant difference in powder charge...

OTOH, the powders they sell us are blended in such a way that the jug of Unique I bought five years ago produces pretty much the same results, w/ the same load, as the jug I just bought, or the jug that's been sitting on the shelf for 15 yrs... kinda helps keep us from wrecking a lot of guns, and ourselves, you know?

So...

Sounds like it's about time for you to add the next important piece of equipment to your collection, a chronograph. You can get a serviceable unit for not much more than $100.

Find a FACTORY load you like. Chrono some of 'em (10 or so will do it if they're not too 'spensive, though I sometimes cut it to 3-5 for the pricey stuff) and write down all the results. These will form your baseline.

From there, find book loads that seem "similar" to your results, and work from there. Remember, the velocities the books report will almost NEVER match what YOUR gun does, so do as my pilot buddies have told me in the past: trust your instruments!

Once you're making handloads that match the ballistics of your factory load, in YOUR gun, you should be on the right track.

Felt recoil is absolutely the worst way to determine what's what. You'll find there are loads you like to shoot more than others along the way, but that's purely subjective. Get the objective stuff figured out first!

Rick C

 

[comanche]

I know that with that bullet and caliber combination, my max load of HS-6
"feels" much snappier than my max load of H-110; but is several hundred fps slower. So, as others have said; recoil does not equal performance.

 

[rwnielsen]

I've had the same experience with upper end H-110 loads in the 357 (also 6" Gp-100)
Good heavy shove.
I've had some upper end Unique loads that had me checking my notes and load charts before I fired a second one :mrgreen:

 

[Chief_10Beers]

I sure would like to get my paws on the recipie that the Ammo Mfg. use......................

Hi, Chief

Hate to be the wet blanket, but 'tain't gonna happen!

The factories load powders we can't get. We had a discussion recently on that subject, but the highlight is they test a large lot (carload?) and develop a load that works. When that bunch of powder's used up, they repeat the process... so Lot A and Lot B may exhibit identical ballistics, but when you open 'em up there could be a significant difference in powder charge...

OTOH, the powders they sell us are blended in such a way that the jug of Unique I bought five years ago produces pretty much the same results, w/ the same load, as the jug I just bought, or the jug that's been sitting on the shelf for 15 yrs... kinda helps keep us from wrecking a lot of guns, and ourselves, you know?

So...

Sounds like it's about time for you to add the next important piece of equipment to your collection, a chronograph. You can get a serviceable unit for not much more than $100.

Find a FACTORY load you like. Chrono some of 'em (10 or so will do it if they're not too 'spensive, though I sometimes cut it to 3-5 for the pricey stuff) and write down all the results. These will form your baseline.

From there, find book loads that seem "similar" to your results, and work from there. Remember, the velocities the books report will almost NEVER match what YOUR gun does, so do as my pilot buddies have told me in the past: trust your instruments!

Once you're making handloads that match the ballistics of your factory load, in YOUR gun, you should be on the right track.

Felt recoil is absolutely the worst way to determine what's what. You'll find there are loads you like to shoot more than others along the way, but that's purely subjective. Get the objective stuff figured out first!

Rick C

LoL! More money I'll have to spend.....................................

 

[Pal Val]

I was surprised to find that loading the identical bullet to the identical velocity of the factory load with a slow burning gunpowder like H-110 actually produces less felt recoil. I noticed this while trying to duplicate Hornady .44 mag factory rounds. A friend chronographed the results and we found that we could get a bullet flying more than 150fps faster than the factory load without reaching the published max load and without the felt recoil of the factory loads.

I couldn't believe it at first. I wish I could find my notes of that day. If I do, I'll post them.

 

[contender]

Chief,, spending more $$ on equipment DOES have a bright side. Once you get it,, most of it is quality stuff,,, and you don't have to buy more of it later. And the more you reload,, the more $$ you save over factory ammo. Eventually,, you will have paid off your investment,, and still have the equipment.
I started buying reloading stuff in the '70's. There isn't many items I need now,, and with the amount I shoot,, anytime I do buy something,, I know I've already gotten my money back as I've saved a LOT over the years.
A good chrono will help you understand a lot more about your ammo,, and any factory ammo you may shoot. However,, it will cause you to have more questions when you realize that published data,, and your reloads don't match up,,,!
As said,, "trust your instruments."

 

[Yosemite Sam]

The other side of it is, everything is getting more expensive every day, so you might as well buy the $100 chrony now before it's $150 tomorrow...

Hey, I can justify just about any expense. Just try me.

-- Sam

 

[revhigh]

If you want a hotter, and much more violent load .... try 2400 .... at the top of the range. They're really fun !! It's all I've used for 20+ years in 357/158.

REV

 

[Shoot44]

Hi, Chief

Sounds like it's about time for you to add the next important piece of equipment to your collection, a chronograph. You can get a serviceable unit for not much more than $100.

From there, find book loads that seem "similar" to your results, and work from there. Remember, the velocities the books report will almost NEVER match what YOUR gun does, so do as my pilot buddies have told me in the past: trust your instruments!


Rick C

Very good advice/info!

A particularly pointed example is the Hodgdon manual data for 357's. IIRC, they give a velocity of around 2000 fps for a 125 grain bullet in one of their loads. Everyone always quotes this and says that's the way to get a FAST bullet. Wellllll not quite. What they don't read is the data panel that says that that load/velocity was tested in a barrel length of around 10" (again, IIRC). You'll never see anywhere near that speed in a REAL gun, with a barrel length that most of us use. The manual also doesn't say, (but I would guess it is true), if a 'pressure barrel' was used or a real revolver WITH a cylinder/barrel gap.
The bottom line is: READ the 'fine print' in the manual, and: get yourself a chronograph! Without the latter, you are really 'flying blind' IMHO.