Flatgate problem

[hittman]

I’m not at all mechanically inclined but my old flatgate in the 112xx s/n range has a little issue. Maybe someone can lend a little advice please.

With the hammer relaxed I can rotate the cylinder counter clockwise about half way to the next chamber.

With the hammer cocked, held back and the trigger pulled, the cylinder is very tight just like it should be.

The gun shoots just fine so I’ve never addressed this issue.

Any thoughts or comments?

 

[Mobuck]

I'm not versed on this issue but if the cylinder is rotated manually as you describe does the hand catch and index it to the firing position when the hammer is cocked?

 

[Johnnu2]

Hittman.... I'm no expert, but I would suggest two things:

1) most probably the cylinder lock (cyl bolt) is not coming up far enough to hold the cylinder 'locked'; my thinking is that a good cleaning of the entire 'innards' might fix the problem (I had an old SingleSix that I hadn't fired in MANY years that was totally locked-up and frozen..a good cleaning and it was back in business.... note, I keep my guns in temp/humidity environment and super clean all the time...it musta just been the oil turned to cement in this case).

2) If the cleaning doesn't do it then, somehow, the cyl lock timing got screwed-up and is not actuating the bolt the way it should. I was just working on my Colt SAA with a timing problem and the instructions that I were reading said that, once I got it to pop up at the right time, the next 'check point' is to be sure that it actually locks the cyl and does NOT allow it to counter rotate (there is a fix for that in a Colt, but I forgot what the Ruger fix is.... if Hondo44 is around, he'd know fer sure).

J

 

[rugerguy]

lack of use, oil crude build up??? I checked Lauras' old Single sixes yesterday gave them all a shot ( drop or two ) Kroil on the 1) pawl 2) the cyl stop bolt, 3) down the face bottom edge of the hammer when its all the way back....4) on the cylinder pin, make sure it moves, work the action...swab down the bore.......then back in the safe do not like to tear them down, I know a screw driver can and will"slip" and over the years ( 3 gun shops) we have seen MORE damage done to firearms from cleaning.... :?

yes I do remove the grips and wipe the grip frame as well as the grip panels...

Did the gun ever get taken apart??? I've seen the "pawl" spring and plunger pin back wards.....got a great deal on an old 4 digit Single Six from Gander Mountain, that would not work for them and it was put together WRONG by their 'late' gunsmith who will remain anonymous, national quick draw champion no less but NOT a gunsmith. 8) :roll: :wink:

 

[hittman]

It may have been converted once and put back original …. I don’t remember for sure.

I sprayed a little CLP in it ….. let that sit overnight then blew it out with compressed air. No change. Not sure I’ve got the confidence to take it apart.

I appreciate the ideas. Thanks.

 

[hittman]

So I drug out another flatgate that does not have a problem.

With that gun, with the cylinder removed I can still cock the gun.

On the gun I’m having problems with I notice that with the cylinder out …. The hammer is locked in place (at the half-cock) and will not move either direction until the cylinder is back in.

 

[Hondo44]

Johnnu2 is correct, you very likely have a gummed up action from accumulation of old oils and/or crud.

The cyl latch is actuated by a spring tension-ed plunger mounted in the right side of the hammer. When that plunger is not functioning correctly due to the above reasons, the gun will exhibit the problems you describe. This is a simple issue. Even if the plunger has been bent or broken, (although that's not common in the old model Rugers such as yours), it's simple to replace.

First thing I recommend is to 'flood' the right side of the hammer with cleaner to get it to the plunger using Kroil as Rugerguy suggests or similar gun cleaning/penetrating product. Then hold the gun sideways, right side up and work the action several times.

If that doesn't fix it, take it to a gunsmith for a disassembly, cleaning and inspection.

I know you said that you're not sure you’ve got the confidence to take it apart but here's a video to watch for information and see the parts I've mentioned, or maybe have a go at it:


Ruger doesn't have an OM single action 3 screw video but go to this link for ‘Revolver Tech Tips”: http://www.ruger.com/videos.html?vid=13 ... at=3769277
and scroll down to choose the videos “Tech Tips-Old Army Disassembly” and “Tech Tips-Old Army Reassembly” which has the same action as all Old Models.

Let us know what you decide to do. If you need more info or have questions, we'll be here.

 

[hittman]

Thank you. Will let you know.

 

[Johnnu2]

It ALMOST sounds like a gun with the dreaded transfer bar... Sometimes those guns won't function when the cyl is out because the cyl. pin is not in place and pushing against the transfer bar. But this is supposed to be an OM (unconverted) gun so, it really baffles me (not that it won't function with the cylinder out, but rather, that it will somewhat function/cock with the cylinder in). Too bad you can't strip it down to the bare parts and clean everything; I can't tell you the number of guns that friends have brought me that just won't work. I clean them and, unless I find a broken part in there, they work fine.
Almost every gun I own has buggered screws.... it's part of my mantra: Striving for Mediocrity.

J.

 

[hittman]

Yes, this is an OM not converted.

I’ve flooded it like suggested with both Hoppe’s No. 9 and CLP and cocked it a bunch …. Now I’ll just let it soak a day or two ….. then blow it out with compressed air and see what I have.

Thanks again to all.

 

[Hondo44]

Did you observe the parts involved in the video?

 

[rugerguy]

:Like I said in my post above, the use of Kroil ,down in the front of the hammer, when its cocked all the way back,, the Kroil will actually "creep" up and into the spring /plunger, at the lower bottom right side of the hammer...same with the "pawl" the Kroil gets into all the nooks and crannies, and the working of the action helps it along and in.....I kid you not , it WORKS.........
this is the easiest to do when one does NOT want ( or feels able to) to completely disassemble the firearm......hell for many years we simply took off the grips ( after we unloaded the gun) and soaked the gun in a pan of kerosene over night,,,same results........Kroil is better we found out.... 8) :roll: :wink:

If you got money, then buy an ultrasonic cleaner....I knew of some shops, thats all they did, and got paid for cleaning the gun!! :?

 

[hittman]

Yes, I watched the videos, thank you.

I’ll have to see where locally I can get Kroils.

 

[hittman]

As luck would have it, the old WWW says there’s maybe 2 places in town that have this magical Kroil stuff …… I’ll give them a visit tomorrow.

 

[Danjet500]

Not only is it magical, it smells great!

 

[Johnnu2]

rugerguy's ideas are great... Kroil does work, I just didn't realize it would 'creep up; the plunger

I also forgot about soaking the gun completely .... if it's 'crunge' this will work too...

Let us know what happens hittman...........

J.

 

[hittman]

One store in town (Fastenal) has 16.5 ounce spray cans for … ready … $31.00!

So, I checked on line and Midway USA has 8 ounce spray cans for $19.00 but you add sales tax and shipping and pay $29.50!

I got way more than I need at the local store but got twice the amount.

So, I’m gonna let the old girl sit and soak a day or two and will let you know.

And you’re right….that stuff does smell good.

 

[Johnnu2]

Hittman.... anything to report on this issue/fix...?

J.

 

[woodsy]

I'm also interested in the results.
By the way, one can purchase Kroil from this vendor, in non-aerosol cans:

https://www.mcmaster.com/
They are an industrial supplier which sells to anyone.

 

[hittman]

Update ….. no joy in Flatgate town.

Its clean as a whistle now ….. at least as clean as I can make it by not taking it apart.

I bathed it really good with that new miracle spray ….. worked the action a hundred times, let it soak 2 or 3 days, blew it out with my air compressor, etc. Cylinder still rotates backwards a little ~ just like before.

And I’ve been busy on other projects ….. its tough being retired. :lol: Time seems to be at a premium.

 

[Hondo44]

Time to look deeper.

Your cyl latch is not coming up high enough to lock in the notches. Most likely a factor of a bent hammer plunger which doesn't retract far enough back in its hole and is keeping the cyl latch from rising to its full height.

If the plunger is bent it will be obvious. If it's not bent install a new cyl latch, these seldom need fitting.

Some former owner may have tried to "smooth" the action but didn't know how to do it properly.

 

[hittman]

Ok to further show my lack of mechanical abilities …. I have another flatgate that works properly ….. I can tell you when I remove the cylinder of each all the parts on the recoil shield look exactly the same.

I’ll drum up the courage to tear into it maybe when the weather is too cold to be outside. Thank goodness for internet videos.

 

[Johnnu2]

Hittman... just so you can see what Hondo44 is talking about:"Most likely a factor of a bent hammer plunger which doesn't retract far enough back in its hole and is keeping the cyl latch from rising to its full height."
Pic 1 shows the hammer plunger which could be stuck in it's channel within the hammer. It actuates the cylinder latch (the latch operates a little like a see-saw; the plunger moves it down and the spring see pic 4 moves it back to lock)

Pic 2 shows the opposite side of the hammer showing the hole/pin that holds the plunger in place (upper left on the hammer)


He further says if the plunger is not bent "If it's not bent install a new cyl latch, these seldom need fitting." He suggests installing a new cylinder latch. Pic 3 shows the cylinder latch and Pic 4 shows the spring that operates in the opposite direction of the plunger to actuate the latch into the locked position (IIRC):





These pics are from Blackhawks, but the Single Six uses the same type parts as I recall.

I know it's daunting, but there will always be professionals to fix the things we mess up...but there are members who can help you 'screw by screw'... YOUTUBE helps too

J.

 

[hittman]

Wow! Thank you very much for the visual tutorial. That’s likely just what I needed.

Once I tear into it I’ll let you know.

Appreciate the info and help from everyone.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Suggestion from experience . . .

Before you remove the screw upon which the latch pivots, pay particular attention to how the spring fits when it's in place. It's not immediately evident that the hidden lower leg of the spring engages a tiny hole down in there. Check its position and action before removing that screw.

:mrgreen:

 

[JOHNNY WACKO]

Time to take it apart and find worn part i would say. I made a nice jig to hold mine upside down by the frame with a small cheap 2" vice on a 1" 1x8 holds it perfectly to get to everything .