First AR Build/ Pic & Questions

[Mike J]

My stripped lower came in from Palmetto State Armory. I picked it up from the FFL on Tuesday. Assembled the lower Tuesday night. Cleaned the upper & put everything together Wednesday night. Shot the rifle for the first time this evening. I had some problems & wondering if I need to change how I am lubing.

First the problems. I had several fail to fires. I am wondering if that is just the ammo though as the primers looked dimpled pretty well. The rounds fired on the second try. Ammo was American Eagle bulk.
The issue that concerns me is I let my buddy shoot it & after the last round he fired the bolt carrier group stayed forward. I separated the upper from the lower & got it to come back. I fired it afterwards & it did fine. This is the same buddy that managed to get my old Dan Wesson revolver to malfunction though so the question is was it something he did or something else. I am thinking I probably need to change how I lubed. I had oiled the bolt up generously with Mobil One & greased the outside of the Bolt Carrier group with Shooters Choice grease. I am wondering if I should just make the BCG swim in oil. Any input on how & how much to lube an AR is welcome.

Here is the pic.

 

[ArmedinAZ]

Hi Mike. Welcome to the EBR crowd. :twisted: One of my regular shooting buddies is a retired Army small arms specialist, he told me how they lubed the BCG but I can't remember word for word. I've emailed him for clarification. I don't think any grease was involved and it was way less lube that you'd think.

 

[Cheesewhiz]

Keep the lube light. We used to soak the bolt carriers and wipe them dry (LSA), pour some more LSA on our hands and wipe them together and just massage the carrier group parts. It was just a very light coating at the end of all this. We didn't pay for the lube so it was just a slop fest. Too much in the bolt group and especially in the lug rings and firing pin can cause problems. Looks like you did a fine job with the gun, oops, Rifle..

 

[Mike J]

Thanks guys. I think I want to get a rod dot set up on it later on but I've got too much going on to do it right now.

 

[Mike J]

Keep the lube light. We used to soak the bolt carriers and wipe them dry (LSA), pour some more LSA on our hands and wipe them together and just massage the carrier group parts. It was just a very light coating at the end of all this. We didn't pay for the lube so it was just a slop fest. Too much in the bolt group and especially in the lug rings and firing pin can cause problems. Looks like you did a fine job with the gun, oops, Rifle..

Cheese could you clarify for me LSA?

 

[Mobuck]

So, did the bolt "stay forward" or fail to lock open? Need to know before giving an answer.
On new rifles, I grease the bolt lugs and cam pin and use CLP on the gas rings, then hand cycle them until my hand hurts(not pinned to the lower-just using my fingers-probably 100 cycles). This usually makes things work better quicker. My new rifles blow smoke for several shots while the excess lube is burning off.

 

[Mike J]

So, did the bolt "stay forward" or fail to lock open? Need to know before giving an answer.
On new rifles, I grease the bolt lugs and cam pin and use CLP on the gas rings, then hand cycle them until my hand hurts(not pinned to the lower-just using my fingers-probably 100 cycles). This usually makes things work better quicker. My new rifles blow smoke for several shots while the excess lube is burning off.

The bolt stayed forward. I only got to shoot about 30 rounds. A storm came in & it started to rain which I could have dealt with if it hadn't been thundering. I am kind of a coward about lightning.

 

[Cheesewhiz]

It's military speak/noun nomenclature, Lubricant, Small Arms. A lot of people think Breakfree is the same, it may be but it doesn't smell the same. I think Ballistol is closer to what it is, cleaner/lubricant.

 

[737tdi]

Howdy Mike: Man there a lot of things folks that don't understand about the AR. It is a precision machine. It is just you bought precision parts from more then one place. That usually works but you never know. I have never heard of a bolt lock in the breach. Is that what you have? If your headspace is way off it could cause this. Maybe things aren't screwed together quite right.??? I am building another one and it will cost about $2000 due to the high dollar upper/handguards, lower with every best component including the stock. It is all about what you want to build, It amazes me that folks think they are smiths, of which I am not. I do build AR's but it is because I understand the AR.

Quality products equal a good build. Folks on ARF.com disagree but they are 19 years old and shoot very little. When you put 5000 rounds through it, in a few months, let me see how they feel about their builds. Buy garbage out of shotgun news and you get garbage. If you want to build a gun use BCM, DPMS, COLT, etc.. Folks that know how to machine parts. I have always said, if you want a reliable machine buy COLT. I have a couple 3 and they never fail. I am building a new on right now. It is almost all BCM parts with Ambi safety and Ambi charging handle plus their high end upper. Why, I shoot ambi. Always have and always will. I shoot better lefty but I am right handed. I shoot almost as well right handed. I qualified Expert lefty but sharpshooter righty in Marine Corps quals. I still shoot better lefty, I an right handed. Go figure. I qualified Expert right handed as well.

I did not answer your question very well. All I can say is buy quality products and your AR should function as needed and required. Maybe the wrong bolt? I don't know, I could probably tell you pretty quick if I shot it.

Semper Fi:

Karl

 

[Mobuck]

"the bolt stayed forward"
It didn't eject the fired case but you could eject manually by pulling the charge handle? More info on the upper, please.
I've seen some instances of the primer having a "slight dimple" if the bolt wasn't fully locked. This also happened to be with Federal (X)m-193 in an upper my SIL got from PSA(I think). Lots of suggestions are flying but the solution requires quality info for better input.
I fully realize that some people shoot much higher volumes of ammo at much higher rates of fire compared to my use BUT I can honestly say that any properly assembled upper should function with any in-spec ammo it's fed. New stuff may have hiccups and need some breakin but I seldom see malfunctions on AR platforms I build.

 

[gmartinnc]

The FTF's make me wonder if your trigger and hammer springs are installed correctly. It is VERY easy to have one backwards. If it were mine I would disassemble the trigger group and double check these.
As for the bolt staying forward, was the empty case ejected?
There is nothing at all wrong with PSA parts. I have assembled three, all work 100% and are as accurate or more accurate than my factory built Colt.

 

[cas6969]

I'm a greaser, use grease on my bolt carrier. Winter, spring, summer, fall.

But with a new gun I'd suggest over oiling it and don't be too worried by a few failures to function early on.

 

[Mike J]

737tdi-All parts came from the same place. I bought a blemished premium rifle kit from Palmetto State Armory. It was an assembled upper with a lower parts kit. They said they test fire their uppers before shipping & I believe them I cleaned a bunch of preservative & copper fouling out of that barrel. I dissembled the BCG & cleaned & lubed it before taking it out for the first time. I suspect whatever the problem is was caused by me.

Edited to add: PSA has the reputation of selling good quality parts at reasonable prices. The biggest complaint I have seen about them is slow customer service & slow shipping. I got everything but the lower pretty quickly.

 

[Mike J]

Mobuck-It did not eject the spent shell, it didn't cycle it stayed forward. I pulled the charging handle to the rear & I could see the tail end of the BCG through the ejection port. I took the pivot pin & the take down pin out & separated the upper from the lower. Grabbed the BCG & pulled it out. I put it back in & reassembled. Everything worked fine. I am really wondering if my woes are a combination of a tight new rifle & the lube I chose.

 

[Mike J]

gmartinnc-I will check that before I go back out.

 

[Mike J]

I'm a greaser, use greaser on my bolt carrier. Winter, spring, summer, fall.

But with a new gun I'd suggest over oiling it and don't be too worried by a few failures to function early on.

I am suspecting the grease. I know I put too much shooter choice grease in my old P series pistol & caused a fail to eject once long ago. It had migrated through the whole gun. After cleaning & relubing it worked with no problems. It is good grease but must be used sparingly. I think I overdid it.

I am honestly wondering if some of it migrated into the firing pin channel if it might be slowing the pin. Of course the only way to find out is to go through & clean everything, check everything, re lube & try again.

 

[DeletedMember275]

I've been working on M16s and AR-15s for a long, long time. The military doesn't use grease anywhere on the M16 or M4. IMHO, most people over-lube their rifles anyway. Yes, they need lube; no, it doesn't need to look like a gusher from an oil well.

Did you clean the bore and chamber before you went to the range? If not, do so, especially clean the chamber well - with a chamber brush. Most people ignore the chamber when they clean the bore. No telling what was still in there from the factory.

And last, what does the staking on your bolt carrier key look like? I see a lot of them in new guns that are just barely staked in place. Here's a pic that shows what they SHOULD look like. If yours doesn't expect trouble from it.

 

[gmartinnc]

My rifles get a drop of Mobil 1 on the bolt cam pin and a light coating in the areas where the bolt carrier contact the upper receiver. Most grease is too thick for anywhere in the AR.

 

[737tdi]

gmartinnc-I will check that before I go back out.

Mike: I am thinking you may have a gas tube problem, if, and a big IF, it wasn't a bad round. Take it out and shoot it with some known good ammo (Lake City, Federal). I don't know what ammo you were shooting. Look up a little acronym called SMART. It is old but so am I. Let us know a little bit more after you shoot it next. I am always up for AR questions. I hate ARF because of the ninja warriors that are on that site. I am NO expert on ARs but I have built a couple and have been shooting them for 30+ years. If it happens again check your gas block and tube for obstructions. It does not take much to inhibit the blowback to work the bcg. Let us know. By the way, a decent built AR should operate with no lube, if you have to grease it to make it work, something isn't right. I am no way suggesting you shouldn't use lube but be sparing with it.

Semper Fi:

Karl

 

[Mike J]

Thanks everyone. I am about to clean the BCG up.

Enigma-I am going to clean the chamber also. It makes sense with what happened with the BCG.

I am also going to look at the other suggestions.

I'm pretty sure once we overcome the me factor this thing is going to work fine.

 

[ArmedinAZ]

Mike, my guy got back to me, he puts 1 - 2 drops of lube on the gas ring. That's it inside the BCG. Very light coating on the outside, like a wipe-down with a rag very lightly lubed after it's all clean. His job was small arms maintenance so take it for what it's worth. You'll get it figured out.

 

[cas6969]

The military does a lot of things I don't and I do a lot of they don't.


Staking it great. That way if the bolts do snap, they don't fall out and you never know they're broken. It just won't run and you can't figure out why and it drives you crazy for weeks or months trying to figure it, until you finally pull the key off out of desperation.
A single shot may be better than a totally jammed gun in combat, but then I don't take my rifles into combat much these days.

Been running unstaked keys on my race guns for years and that's the way I like it.
(I don't believe in staking castle nuts either)

 

[Mike J]

I cleaned everything again, cleaned the chamber, stripped the old lube off & lubed it with oil. Hammer spring is installed correctly. The gas key is properly staked.

I called my sister-in-law to see if she would mind me function checking in her back yard this evening. I know she doesn't care but I always ask out of courtesy. Still waiting on a call back. If I don't get to check it this evening I will make it to her house or the church land this week & check it out. I still need to finish zeroing the irons also. I had just gotten it on at 25 yards when the storm came in.

 

[Mike J]

Okay, Just got back in. I didn't have much time & her land away from the house has grown up to where you can't even tell where the bush hog roads used to be. I hacked my way back in a ways & just function tested firing into a dirt pile. I fired 20 rounds. 10 times as fast as I could pull the trigger twice. No hang ups, no light strikes.

I want to Thank Everyone for sharing their experience. It is amazing what a difference proper lubrication & a clean chamber make. I have stuff to do this week but I am going to try to go finish sighting it in within the next week or so.

 

[george preston]

A lot of people over lube the AR. It doesn't need it. Lite use of CLP (or like product) on the gas rings and a drop on the bolt itself is all you need. A good cleaning and light lube should fix your issue unless you are out of spec on your build somewhere.....just saw that you got it fixed. Enjoy !

 

[ArmedinAZ]

Good to hear Mike! Here's a good write-up on zeroing the AR-15 using 2 different zero distances. You have to read it a couple of times to get it. I didn't notice what rear sight you're using but maybe it will help.

http://ar15armory.com/forums/topic/69085-zeroing-the-m4-and-ar-15/

 

[737tdi]

Good to hear Mike! Here's a good write-up on zeroing the AR-15 using 2 different zero distances. You have to read it a couple of times to get it. I didn't notice what rear sight you're using but maybe it will help.

http://ar15armory.com/forums/topic/69085-zeroing-the-m4-and-ar-15/

Hows about just doing like jarheads?? Snap fire that sucker for a week and then zero. If you aren't familiar that is the way to go IMO. We shot worn out junk and I could hit zero at 200 and 300 and hit a few at 500. LOL. I just find all AR conversations funny. Y'all go, get some. I qualified marksman the first time due to they made me shoot right handed. I shoot much better left and qualified much better. Expert the next 9 years.

Karl

 

[ArmedinAZ]

Karl, what's wrong with understanding the ballistics of the 5.56 round and knowing there are some alternatives? It's truly impressive that you qualified expert both sides but how does that help a guy with limited time and range distance get to know his new rifle? You've been there done that and got the badges, maybe you could give Mike some solid advice? "snap fire for a week then zero" isn't very detailed. Help him out.

 

[737tdi]

Karl, what's wrong with understanding the ballistics of the 5.56 round and knowing there are some alternatives? It's truly impressive that you qualified expert both sides but how does that help a guy with limited time and range distance get to know his new rifle? You've been there done that and got the badges, maybe you could give Mike some solid advice? "snap fire for a week then zero" isn't very detailed. Help him out.

Wow :shock:

I thought I had given some good advice. Did you read anything before my last post? Breathe, Relax, Aim, Stop, Squeeze. BRASS, is something that has always made my shooting better. If you have a backyard, paint a bucket with small targets, sight in on those targets and control your breathing, sight in on those targets and squeeze. I don't know what else I can say other then it does not hurt a AR to dry fire it. You are hitting the backside of the firing pin and it really doesn't care if there is a primer to hit Even if it does it very easy to replace.

As far as shooting medals, it is very easy to shoot at something that is not shooting back. I only mentioned them because I wanted to show that shooting lefty or righty the AR is very accurate. I did not mean to toot my horn.

Semper Fi:

Karl

 

[ArmedinAZ]

Not yanking your chain, very few can shoot at all both sides much less shoot well. Dry fire is solid advice.