Feel of Single Action Grips

[pappyd]

Confession: I have never shot a single-action revolver. I have had a GP100 and SP101 (and an Ex-wife), so those are now gone. Now I have and shoot a Service Six, LCR, and a Dan Wesson Model 15. All of my experience is with double-action revolvers. I keep going into the gun shop and fondling the Single-Ten and Vaquero, but I just cannot get comfortable with the grip angle.

The grip angles on single-actions seem so different from double-actions that I'm not sure I can adjust at my advanced age. My question is, do I need to shoot a single-action to learn to love one or is this something I will never get comfortable with if it just doesn't feel right in the store?

 

[Curley Red]

I love shooting my single actions, sometimes more than my semi auto's. It is a different feel, but there is just something I really like about my Vaquero's. It might be that it makes me think about western days of cowboys and indians, not really sure what it is but I love it.

 

[MOUNTAIN WILLIAM]

Next time you're at your favorite LGS try a Ruger Bisley grip, it gives the single action a double action feel but retains all of the single actions charm and durability.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

One thing to remember is the basic shape of a Ruger single action revolver grip goes back about 160 years to the Colt Navy revolver of 1851. There have been some minor changes along the way, but most Ruger single action grips mimic the Colt Single Action Army grip, which itself is the same as the old 1851 Navy grip.

Another thing to remember is that the old 1851 Navy grip was not really meant to have your entire hand crammed onto it. I'm reading between the lines here, but I'll bet you are trying to cram your entire hand onto the grip. I really don't think Wild Bill's hands were any smaller than ours are today. I'll bet you dollars to donuts, Wild Bill curled his pinky under the grip, I'll bet he did not try to cram his entire hand onto the grip.

Another thing to think about, is to forget everything your old DI taught you about keeping your grip as high as possible on the gun. These ain't semi-autos. With most semi-autos it is not physically possible to get your middle finger behind the trigger guard. With a single action revolver it is, and if you cram your entire hand onto the grip so that your middle finger is touching the trigger guard, when you start shooting some heavy recoiling loads your knuckle is going to get whacked by the trigger guard and it is going to hurt.

I ALWAYS curl my pinky under the grip of my single actions, Ruger, Colt, Uberti, S&W, what ever. Curling my pinky under the grip allows me to shift down on the grip. The key here is, rather than trying to hold as high as possible on the gun, by shifting down a bit I open up about 1/4" of space between the rear of the trigger guard and the knuckle of my middle finger. The 1/4" of space means the trigger guard never whacks my knuckle, no matter how heavy the load.

Lastly, don't try and hold it with a death grip. Allow the grip to rotate slightly in your hand with recoil. That's what it is supposed to do. That's why it has such a nice curve. When gun manufacturers started putting that hump on the grip behind the hammer, it was supposed to prevent the grip from rotating in your hand. Let the grip rotate. It will bring the hammer spur closer to your thumb and make it easier to cock the hammer for the next shot. It ain't gonna make much difference with a Single Six, but when you try shooting a Vaquero chambered for 45 Colt it will make a world of difference.

The Ruger Bisley grip is only an approximation of what the original Colt Bisley grip looked like. It is more straight up and down than the original, and it is longer. Those who like to cram their entire hand onto the grip like the longer Ruger Bisley grip, but you will still have your knuckle hard against the trigger guard and it will probably hurt if you try shooting heavy recoiling loads.

Try my suggestions and see if you like it a little bit better. I can shoot full power Black Powder 45 Colt loads our of a Colt, clone, or Ruger all day long and it is very comfortable.

Of course, I have been shooting single action revolvers for over 40 years, so that may have something to do with it.

 

[Rclark]

do I need to shoot a single-action to learn to love one

You do have to shoot 'em to appreciate the o' plow handle grip. And yes, it may take a few shots to get used to it.... at least that is what I hear :) . Of course, what do I know.... I started with SA revolvers as a kid with a cap gun, then on to .22 and... and so on.... :) . That said, I have no trouble transitioning to funny looking grips like S&W, SP-101, Redhawk, or my .44Spec Bulldog. All seem to work ok.... just different... But a SA settling into the palm definitely feels 'right' ... ahhhh....

Try DJs suggestions above. Again, I think you do have to shoot them, to get a feel for them and you are never to old to try something new :) .

 

[pappyd]

That's a great post Driftwood. You've perfectly described what I've been doing, as I usually shoot semi-autos and have been trying the same "firm, high grip" on the single-actions. That is great information. I will give it a shot.

 

[caryc]

I'll bet you dollars to donuts, Wild Bill curled his pinky under the grip, I'll bet he did not try to cram his entire hand onto the grip.

This may surprise you but being a grip maker, I'd say that 95% of my customers order their grips with flat bottoms.

This tells me that they don't curl their pinky finger under the grip. If would be awful uncomfortable if they did.

 

[dougader]

Next time you're at your favorite LGS try a Ruger Bisley grip, it gives the single action a double action feel but retains all of the single actions charm and durability.

This is what I was going to suggest. I remember when I first started looking at SA revolvers to see what all the fuss was about. I just didn't like the way the grips fit in my hand. Then I shot my brother-in-law's Super Blackhawk with a 5.5" barrel. No thank you was all I said to that.

Then I was walking through a gun show and saw a Bisley. I picked it up and it fit my hand really well. But I didn't like the 7-1/2" barrel. I kept putting of the purchase because I knew I was going to have to pay a gunsmith to cut and crown the barrel.

Then the AccuSport 5-1/2" stainless Bisleys came out. I was hooked. Its still my favorite revolver. Not everyone likes the Bisley gripframe, but for me it was a dream come true.

Since then I have picked up SA revolvers with the "regular" SAA gripframe, and the birdshead gripframe, and I am ok with them as long as it's not a gun that recoils heavily. For anything 44 mag'ish and up, I have to have the Bilsey.

 

[flatgate]

I "curled my pinky" under the grip one time. One shot and only one shot.

Nevermore.

No way.

The pain was tremendous so I grabbed my head......... (for you Bill Cosby fans).

flatgate

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

This may surprise you but being a grip maker, I'd say that 95% of my customers order their grips with flat bottoms.

This tells me that they don't curl their pinky finger under the grip. If would be awful uncomfortable if they did.

Maybe so, but I'll bet most of them have not tried my technique. If they did, they would ask for the beveled bottom grips.

 

[caryc]

This may surprise you but being a grip maker, I'd say that 95% of my customers order their grips with flat bottoms.

This tells me that they don't curl their pinky finger under the grip. If would be awful uncomfortable if they did.

Maybe so, but I'll bet most of them have not tried my technique. If they did, they would ask for the beveled bottom grips.

So, you actually think they would switch to flat bottomed grips without even trying the pinky under hold?

When people order grips from me, I ask them about how they shoot and their hold on the gun. Believe me, the pinky finger under is not the favored grip of experienced long time shooters, no matter how much you think it is.

Who would be in a better position to hear what people prefer other than a grip maker?

 

[Hugh]

Thank you for that bit of information Cary. When I am holding my New Model Blackhawks the front end of the butt takes up about 2/3 of the width of my little finger; it is kinda awkward to hold with my pinky under the butt.

Pappy I was never very interested in SA revolvers until just about three years ago. I have been shooting double actions most of my life; cocking the hammer and shooting single action. Rarely do I shoot double action. The only adjustment I had to make when I bought my first SA was the shape of the grip.

 

[bogus bill]

You dont put your pinky under the bottom of the grip shooting off the bench. Seems to me you would be alright any other way. Been there done that, got the shirt!

 

[caryc]

Thank you for that bit of information Cary. When I am holding my New Model Blackhawks the front end of the butt takes up about 2/3 of the width of my little finger; it is kinda awkward to hold with my pinky under the butt.

Pappy I was never very interested in SA revolvers until just about three years ago. I have been shooting double actions most of my life; cocking the hammer and shooting single action. Rarely do I shoot double action. The only adjustment I had to make when I bought my first SA was the shape of the grip.

That's why people like the flat bottom grips. It gives one the little bit of extra room for the pinky finger.

One more thing. Lots of shooters even with beveled bottom grips who shoot with all their fingers on the grips feel that they can't control the gun. Most of the time its due to the being thin at the top with all that flair at the bottom. It just kind of naturally wants to "squirt" out of their grip with the recoil. My grips are thicker around where the middle finger is to give one more control.

The gun can still roll back as it was designed to do, but you have more control of the gun.

 

[Bucks Owin]

You dont put your pinky under the bottom of the grip shooting off the bench. Seems to me you would be alright any other way. Been there done that, got the shirt!

You too huh? :wink:

 

[JWhitmore44]

Not everybody has to like to shoot a single action, or a double action, or semi auto as far as that goes. I like the look of my Redhawk but hated the grip. Tried couple different rubber style grips and still no go. Now a single action feels at home in my hand. A 1911 type semi auto feels at home in my hand. A double action feels strange :) I would like to try a GP or an SP at some time but if it doesn't feel right I have enough single actions I wont feel left out in any way.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

You dont put your pinky under the bottom of the grip shooting off the bench. Seems to me you would be alright any other way. Been there done that, got the shirt!

Well, sorry to disagree, but I do. I usually balance my wrists on sand bags and hold the gun in front of the sandbags. That way when the gun recoils my pinky does not get mashed.

I'm sure if I was shooting the monster loads that Flatgate does I would probably think twice about my pinky under the grip. But lets face facts, I strongly suspect that 90% or so of the shooters here do not shoot that kind of monster loads.

For full power 45 Colt loads or standard SAMMI 357 Mag loads, the pinky under the grip is fine. My 45 Colt loads usually shove a 250 grain bullet somewhere around 800 fps. Not magnum stuff, but it was the standard 130 years ago. It was strong enough to put down a man with one shot, and could even stop a horse if well placed. Recoil usually rolls the gun back in my hand, and then the pinky arrests the roll, so the gun then lifts my hand and forearm up a few degrees. It does not hurt, and the gun is completely in control. It does not jump out of my hand unless my hands are slippery with Ballistol. So I don't shoot with slippery hands, nobody should.

I developed this technique after watching cowboy shooters complain for years about their knuckles being bashed by recoil. That's why the 1/4" of air space. Maybe I did not invent it, but that's what I do. I can shoot my Colts or Rugers that way all day long, no bashed knuckles, no hurt pinkys, no guns jumping out of my hand. Yes, one hand not two.

Try it, you might like it.

If I ever buy a 44 Mag single action revolver I may try cramming my entire hand onto the grip. But for 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44-40, and 44 Special it works fine.

 

[s4s4u]

I have the Bisley on all my SA's, because it has a similar feel to the GP/SRH grip. The traditional grip I could never get used to.

 

[gak]

Cary, I don't doubt it and have heard the same from Carl, though the % surprises me as it seems responses on RF seem to run closer to 50/50 when this subject somes up. (Time for a poll?) In fact I exhort anyone to definitely note their specific preference with their grip maker as I gather flat bottom these days is the default if nothing's said, and if you're a pinky under type, you may or may not get the bevel--likely not.

That said, definitely beveled bottom for me--pinky under for 40+ years. Hands are small enough that I can go "full grip" if inclined to--loads or whatever. Stock (and online store) Ruger grips continue with the "Colt bevel," perhaps a traditional carry-over but I seldom hear any complaints (as a user, not maker) *about that aspect.*

 

[Mike Armstrong]

Another thing to remember is that the original Colt grip WASN'T meant for the kind of precision aiming that we tend to do now. We now tend to treat handguns as if they were "really short rifles," and, in some of our cases, use them to replace rifles in hunting.

Originally they were thought of as "really long swords," and used that way. So the Colt grip is a point and shoot affair, and still works great for that (have a look at the "sights" on a Navy Colt and you'll see what I mean. Now imagine you are on a horse and in the middle of an ambush or some other melee. Just how precise is your aiming gonna be?).

The famously uncomfortable original Colt Bisley grip was intended for uses much more like what most of us use a handgun for, and it works well enough for that. The Ruger Bisley grip is a Keith-inspired modification of that and works even better, especially on heavy-recoiling revolvers.

BTW, if you are shooting for precision, not "chain-lightning quickdraw" speed, WHY aren't you shooting with a two-handed grip? That's what I was taught (back when it was new and all the older NCOs shook their heads at it--"UNNATURAL--NEVER CATCH ON") and have used for the subsequent 45+ years. I allows your hands to adapt to almost any grip effortlessly. Try it. About the only handgun that doesn't feel OK with a two-handed grip is my brother's Browning Baby .25, a mousegun that is apparently only shootable BY mice.

(BTW, I have NO IDEA where my little fingers go when I shoot a handgun....somewhere in that pile of ten cupping the grip?).

 

[Rclark]

99% of my shooting is two handed. Just more accurate that way. My hands are small with stubby fingers. No pinky under the grip frame (just grabbed one of my revolvers to test, I really haven't paid any attention to it). I prefer the straight rather beveled grips.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Originally they were thought of as "really long swords," and used that way. So the Colt grip is a point and shoot affair, and still works great for that (have a look at the "sights" on a Navy Colt and you'll see what I mean. Now imagine you are on a horse and in the middle of an ambush or some other melee. Just how precise is your aiming gonna be?).

Wild Bill managed to kill Dave Tutt with one shot at 75 yards with the stock sights on an 1851 Navy. And Tutt was thought to be the better marksman.

 

[caryc]

Originally they were thought of as "really long swords," and used that way. So the Colt grip is a point and shoot affair, and still works great for that (have a look at the "sights" on a Navy Colt and you'll see what I mean. Now imagine you are on a horse and in the middle of an ambush or some other melee. Just how precise is your aiming gonna be?).

Wild Bill managed to kill Dave Tutt with one shot at 75 yards with the stock sights on an 1851 Navy. And Tutt was thought to be the better marksman.

How many of those 75 yard shots did he make?

 

[CraigC]

The pinky under hold is only a problem off the bench if the butt is too close to the bench. It should not be. You should grasp the sixgun the same way every time, whether you're shooting off the bench or on your own hind legs. Consistency is everything.

 

[caryc]

I can't speak for every single action shooter. But as a grip maker, I can tell you what most people buy from me.

I make most of my grips for people that have selected a pair of blanks from my grip blanks page. At the point, they have the option to order flat bottoms or beveled bottoms.

Nearly all my customers order flat bottoms. That's my stand on the subject. I'm not trying to say anybody is right or wrong.

 

[Bucks Owin]

You dont put your pinky under the bottom of the grip shooting off the bench. Seems to me you would be alright any other way. Been there done that, got the shirt!

I'm sure if I was shooting the monster loads that Flatgate does I would probably think twice about my pinky under the grip. But lets face facts, I strongly suspect that 90% or so of the shooters here do not shoot that kind of monster loads.

Maybe, maybe not. I would contend that since this is "Ruger Country" most of us .45 BH fans have at least experienced "Ruger Only" loads, and quite a few of us (half?) shoot them as a matter of course. (When you have a race horse, you want it to run!)....My "everyday" load for a 250 gr goes near 1100 fps, the "full tilt" load 1350. The 850 fps stuff is for "plinking" to a lot of us...(Carl ain't the only one around here stuffing them cases with W296 :lol: ) JMO

Craig: I think the pinky/bench question depends on the "set up" one uses, not every handgun bench technique is the same... Again, JMO :wink:

 

[CraigC]

I'll also offer that flat bottomed grips don't work for me for plowhandle type grip frames. That includes the Colt SAA, replicas, Ruger XR3 and XR3-RED. I find the bevel to be much more comfortable on these guns utilizing the pinky-under hold. After A LOT of trial and error, Cary's "Colt style" grips are the most comfortable I've found. For long grip frames like the Colt and Ruger Bisley and Colt 1860, I do like flat bottoms.

You have to find what works for you and that will probably involve several sets of the "wrong" grips before you find the right ones.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

How many of those 75 yard shots did he make?

Wild Bill practiced shooting every single day. He was very unusual in that aspect. Most gun owners back then hardly ever fired their weapons at all. Wild Bill went out and practiced every day. Then he cleaned his guns and reloaded them. Every day. Don't forget, he was shooting Navies which are percussion revolvers, not cartridges. So it was a lot more work to keep loading and shooting, and then cleaning every day than if he had been shooting cartridge revolvers. But that's what he did, every day. He is only recorded as killing a man at 75 yards once, but I'll bet he could do it every day if he needed to.

Folks, I have made my point about the way I shoot a six gun. I'm not going to harp on it anymore, at least not in this thread. If this is truly Ruger Country, and the only shooters reading this forum are only shooting 1200 fps 45 Colt loads out of Blackhawks, I stand corrected. But I would like to mention that the original poster stated he had never fired a single action revolver and was looking for advice about how to get used to the grips.

So there is at least one forum member who is not regularly shooting monster loads. I suspect there may be more and they may benefit from trying several different ways to shoot a single action revolver.

 

[hittman]

My question is, do I need to shoot a single-action to learn to love one or is this something I will never get comfortable with if it just doesn't feel right in the store?

I believe you can get accustomed to the single action grip frame if you have the determination to make it work. I too am almost exclusive double-action ~ always have been ~ open for new ideas though.

I have tried the New Model .44 Mag "Hunter" and an Old Model .357 Blackhawk. Sold them both. Don't shoot them well and didn't have enough interest in them to keep trying. Tried different grips ~ even rubber. Practiced quite a bit, sought advice, etc. ..... just wasn't for me.

However ~ a friend let me shoot his Bisley. (45LC if I remember correctly) Next one I buy will be a Bisley grip frame.

I do have two Old Model Single Six's that I have NO intention of ever selling. Seems my biggest problem is the recoil since I really enjoy the single actions in .22 but ..... not so much in the larger calibers.

 

[CraigC]

Folks, I have made my point about the way I shoot a six gun.

I think you have given very sound advice. :)