Fair value question....Colt 1991 A1

[DGW1949]

I've been offered a rather nice-looking Colt 1991A1 (45ACP), 4 extra (non-colt) mags, and a Desantis holster for $700.

Pro's:
The gun has no finish wear and seems to retain all of it's original parts.

Con's:
This model is the cheapest-made 1911 that Colt ever built...plastic trigger, grips & mainspring housing. It may also have some MIM parts....dunno....but I do know that it has the new-fangled FPS.
The present owner has stuck a Wilson buffer in the thing, and it's very obvious while dry-firing that the hammer spring has been cut........which makes me wonder what other "improvements" may have been done inside.

Question is............is it worth $700 as it sits...or should I offer less?....also, I don't realy need the mags or holster, so there's that.
Aint looking to steal the man's gun, just wondering what would be a fair deal for both of us.

DGW

 

[HAWKEYE#28]

If it has unknown/undisclosed mods, walk away......

 

[revhigh]

I generally won't touch almost any 1911 that's been modified, ESPECIALLY a Colt. The value in most Colts is in its bone stock configuration.

Is it a Compact ?

Do you know for SURE that it's been modified ? I have a 1991 A1 Compact, and it doesn't have any plastic parts that I'm aware of.

REV

 

[DGW1949]

Hey Rev.....
It's a blued 5" gun, and yeah, the plastic parts that I mentioned are indeed, factory. One of my boys bought one just like it, back when that model first came out. As I recall, he paid about $475 for his (new).
The gun in question looks stock externaly and retains 99-100% of it's original finish, which is what got my interest to start with. On the other hand, it's real obvious that it's been "tinkered on" to some extent, and that some new springs will be needed....well that, and the removal of that rediculas buffer-thingy.

In short, it's the same story that you've probably seen a bunch of times yourself;
A guy buys a "1911" and the first thing he does is to set-about "fixing it, so's it'll shoot better"....and of couse, it don't....so sooner or later, it gets offered for sale....which brings us up to today, and to this particular pistol.....which like I said, was from the get-go, the cheapest-made "1911" that Colt ever produced.
Question is.....how cheap should this one be?
My guess would be.....about $100 cheaper than an unaltered 1991A1 in 99-100% condition......but....I don't know how much that is in dollars.

Oh, just in passing;
I'm assuming that the Colt I'm looking at is forged, not cast. If it aint forged, I'd loose interest all together.....meaning that if it aint, I'd as soon buy an RIA and be done with it. After all, one should be getting something besides a logo when paying a Colt price, eh?
If you (or anyone) has further information on that aspect, please let me know.

Thanks.

DGW

 

[revhigh]

Are you sure it's blued and not parkerized ?

Personally ... I wouldn't give more than $450-550 for the gun you're talking about, but that's because I could very easily walk away from it.

I'd tell him to keep the holster. $450-500 if he didn't have the box, paperwork, and original parts, and $500-550 if he had all that stuff.

Only someone without much knowledge of 1911's would pay $700 for the gun as described ... At least IMO.

REV

 

[DGW1949]

Are you sure it's blued and not parkerized ?

Personally ... I wouldn't give more than $450-550 for the gun you're talking about, but that's because I could very easily walk away from it.

I'd tell him to keep the holster. $450-500 if he didn't have the box, paperwork, and original parts, and $500-550 if he had all that stuff.

Only someone without much knowledge of 1911's would pay $700 for the gun as described ... At least IMO.

REV

We aint talking a pre-70 pistol here so no, I'm not sure. As I recall, it is a dull-ish black color, which I suppose could either be a dark park, or a cheap bluing....but certainly NOT the "Colt Royal Blue" that I used to see.

I hear ya on the "walking away" part......I don't have a problem with doing that either. :lol: .
No box, no papers. As far as I can tell, there hasn't been any parts changed-out, just some springs that's been whacked.
I agree on him keeping the holster. As far as that goes, he could keep all the mags too....I've got dozens of those already.

Not much knowlage?.....yep, that's me....leastways, not as Colt prices go.....hence my questions.

Thanks to both of you for your input.
Everything considered, me thinks I'll offer $450 for the gun by itself. That is IF it shoots OK.

DGW

 

[revhigh]

Just FYI ... I didn't mean you when I said not much knowledge DGW.

Regarding the bluing. The only reason I asked is that mine is parkerized .... which is a rougher kinda sandy finish ... Not blued. But mine's a compact. I think they DID make blue full size models, and you're right ... It's definitely NOT Colt's Royal Blue.

I'd think that the parked models are worth less than the blued ones, unless for some reason they're more rare. I must say ... I carried my parked compact for years SOB with no holster, and a year or so in an IWB holster, and there is absolutely NO WEAR on that parkerizing at all. It's pretty tough stuff evidently, although I'm careful with all my guns too.

I'd say anything around $500 +/- a few bucks would be a good deal.

Good luck in your dealings !

Let us know what happens.

REV

 

[1911Tuner]

I'm assuming that the pistol in question is one of the "Billboard Roll Mark" models. Only the earliest ones were parkerized. The rest were finished in bead blast black oxide. I bought two when they appeared. One in October '91 and the other in late January '92. Both are black oxide.

They all had plastic triggers and mainspring housings, and MIM is in full use on many parts. The slide and frame are machined barstock, but a cast frame is neither here nor there in any event...assuming that it's a good casting. Ruger's SR1911 frames are cast. The slides are barstock. Cast slides generally don't fare well in locked-breech pistols.

Don't be too concerned over the MIM. Colt had a good vendor for it, and still does. The MIM parts are quite good in an 01991A1 Colt. The OEM hammer isn't MIM, by the way. It's made the old way...by blanking and finish machining.

As stated, any mods by unknown persons are reasons to be hesitant. The previous owner may have clipped the spring, and he may have installed a lighter spring to get a lighter trigger action. Either one suggests of a basic lack of understanding and immediately draws a red flag because there's no telling what else he's done in his quest to "improve" the pistol. Some things are obvious. Others, not so much.

If the feed and barrel ramps appear to have been mirror polished...walk away. More 1911s have been ruined by Dremel Dan and his double-throwdown ramp'n'throat jobs than any other thing, and it doesn't take a lot to trash one. So, returning the gun to stock configuration may be a simple matter of changing a few parts, and it may require...a bit more. Caveat emptor and all that.

Here's a link to a write-up that I did on MIM that may allay some of your concerns. I don't know if you have to join in order to be able to see it.

http://www.americanclassic1911forum.com/forumsii/showthread.php?1491-The-MIM-Bugaboo

 

[DGW1949]

Thanks again to all of you who's replied.
Fact is....the more this gets talked about, the more gun-shy I'm getting (good pun, eh?).

I guess the bottom line is that I'm going to follow the same advice that I've often given to others......
.....Namely.....when in doubt, don't.

DGW

 

[1911Tuner]

Fact is....the more this gets talked about, the more gun-shy I'm getting

Caution is the operative word.

Truth is...700 bucks is a bit high, even for an unfired NIB example. Half that much...up to a maximum of 400 for a used one in 95% condition, assuming that Dan and Bubba haven't put their grubby mitts in it would be a lot better. It's not like they're rare, but they were and are excellent pistols for the money they cost new.

 

[bigboredad]

Thanks for the link on mim parts it cleared up a lot of questions

 

[dakota1911]

That is high for that pistol. I would walk away myself.