factory sighting loads

[frontstuffers]

Greetings all, I have a question for the group. Sorry if this has been asked before, but couldn't find an answer. I was wondering what load/bullet selection that Ruger uses to determine their factory sight settings? Example: what load do they use to set POA/POI and what distance they use to establish the sight setting on the SP101's? I have one with the 3 inch barrel and fixed sights. I would like to think that they use something like WWB @ 25 yards, but don't have a clue. With adjustable sights I am not AS concerned, but with the fixed sights it would be nice to have a starting point to work from.

Thanks for any info and help you can offer.

 

[whichwatch]

Call Ruger customer service, maybe they can answer your question.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

I read here from someone that worked there that they use Federal 158 grain classic 357 magnum ammo to test their revolvers.
If you have ever shot 38 specials in your SP-101 you know it shoots low with them. They are definitely regulated for 158gr 357 magnum rounds.

edit to add. Looks like Federal took 'Classic' off of the new packaging.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/277492/federal-premium-personal-defense-ammunition-357-magnum-158-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-20

 

[frontstuffers]

Thanks for the info Jimbo. I figured it had to be "off the shelf" ammo, but never really sure of what kind.

And whichwatch, I will try that, sure can't hurt to ask them.

 

[rugerguy]

I doubt if they actually use the ammo to "sight them in" but more of a "proof" test and in fact at times will use "Proof " loads, ( the red bottom brass case you see from time to time in the brown envelope.....I remember when I was at the S&W plant, they test fired "every other chamber", again, for "test fire" not accuracy,now when I was at the Dan Wesson plant in Monson ,Mass,in May 1973, training there for two weeks, we test fired EVERY gun 6 rounds (357 mag) for "test and proof" fire, and then 6 rounds ( 357 mag or.38 special) for accuracy...............when most factories get a complaint or warranty repair, then they will shoot for accuracy if there are sight, or barrel 'crunch' issues (improper crush fit)

 

[Jim Puke]

I doubt if they actually use the ammo to "sight them in" but more of a "proof" test and in fact at times will use "Proof " loads, ( the red bottom brass case you see from time to time in the brown envelope.....I remember when I was at the S&W plant, they test fired "every other chamber", again, for "test fire" not accuracy,now when I was at the Dan Wesson plant in Monson ,Mass,in May 1973, training there for two weeks, we test fired EVERY gun 6 rounds (357 mag) for "test and proof" fire, and then 6 rounds ( 357 mag or.38 special) for accuracy...............when most factories get a complaint or warranty repair, then they will shoot for accuracy if there are sight, or barrel 'crunch' issues (improper crush fit)

BINGO!

And, "sighting in" can be subjective to the individual...different grip can give different POI.

 

[pisgah]

Generally speaking, fixed-sight revolver sights are regulated to be "on" at a given range with whatever is considered the "standard" load for that chambering. In .38 and .357 revolvers, that would be the respective 158 gr. loads.

 

[powder smoke]

I doubt if they actually use the ammo to "sight them in" but more of a "proof" test and in fact at times will use "Proof " loads, ( the red bottom brass case you see from time to time in the brown envelope.....I remember when I was at the S&W plant, they test fired "every other chamber", again, for "test fire" not accuracy,now when I was at the Dan Wesson plant in Monson ,Mass,in May 1973, training there for two weeks, we test fired EVERY gun 6 rounds (357 mag) for "test and proof" fire, and then 6 rounds ( 357 mag or.38 special) for accuracy...............when most factories get a complaint or warranty repair, then they will shoot for accuracy if there are sight, or barrel 'crunch' issues (improper crush fit)

BINGO!

And, "sighting in" can be subjective to the individual...different grip can give different POI.

Double Bingo Proof loads kinda hot. ps

 

[NewportNewsMike]

I would doubt that each gun is fired for accuracy...particularly at Ruger that is trying to build guns to a certain price point, which is not a bad thing to do. That's why a Ruger 1911 or SP-101 or whatever costs what it does, and a firearm that has been given more personal attention (think Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, et cetera) is a few dollars (well, a lot) more expensive.

In the design stage of a particular firearm, a front sight height is determined to be what is required to put a certain bullet / velocity combo at target at whatever the design range is.

Every gun assembled will get that P/N front sight. And since every front sight of the P/N will show a manufacturing tolerance (i.e., they will not all be the same exact height), it is a statistical "crap shoot" where any particular firearm will have its POA / POI fall.

Throw in barrel indexing on top of all this. Most will be somewhat as was envisioned during the design process, others will not.

 

[any ruger]

Disagree with most of the posts . I sent agunto roger for repair of a off center front sight it came back repaired with a copy of the target they shot,

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

any Ruger, note the capital R out of respect to the namesake of this forum. A gun that is sent in for repairs related to sights or barrel will normally be accuracy/ poi tested but as others have said, no such testing is done at the factory on regular run guns.

I own and shoot four SP 101's ,both .38 sp. and .357's . All are regulated from the factory for standard velocity 158 gr. Loads.

 

[xtratoy]

My experience with my SP101 is that the 38 Special loads hit higher than the faster 357 loads. Slower velocity equals more barrel time for recoil to affect POI.

 

[CraigC]

Just shoot the damned thing and see.

 

[powder smoke]

Disagree with most of the posts . I sent agunto roger for repair of a off center front sight it came back repaired with a copy of the target they shot,

Repair not new nuf said. ps

 

[BlkHawk73]

If they still follow what was discussed a couple years ago with one of their head reps in the region, the proof loads come from overseas. Forget the brand, Norma perhaps.

 

[frontstuffers]

I am afraid, judging from some of the replies, that I wasn't clear enough in stating my original question. I am pretty sure that Ruger doesn't fire every firearm for accuracy. What I was looking for, and Pisgah's reply came closest to is, when a firearm is in development there has to be some form of accuracy expectation with a standard, off the shelf, ammo. I didn't know if this might be Winchester white box, Federal's, etc. Also, a most commonly used bullet weight. Just "going out and shooting the damn thing" CraigC is not to productive if you don't have a point of reference to start with, also an idea of distance. I can shoot this at 1 foot and brag about the group, move out to 5 yards and not hit the target. I don't mean to sound rude with this response, but that is the kind of reply that puts people off when they are asking a legitimate question and appears counter productive. However, I really do appreciate all of the responses, they are all food for thought.

Thank you.

 

[CraigC]

Just "going out and shooting the damn thing" CraigC is not to productive if you don't have a point of reference to start with, also an idea of distance. I can shoot this at 1 foot and brag about the group, move out to 5 yards and not hit the target. I don't mean to sound rude with this response, but that is the kind of reply that puts people off when they are asking a legitimate question and appears counter productive.

Sometimes the answer is the most obvious, even when it's not what you want to hear or sugar coated. There's no friggin' way that any of us can predict how any particular firearm will shoot. The ONLY way to determine that, the only way to obtain the information you seek, wait for it.........is to SHOOT IT!!! Since you neglected to share the chambering of your particular gun, we can't even guess.

The wisdom behind that, since it seems an explanation is necessary, is that from +30yrs experience we KNOW that every gun is a law unto itself. Just because Gun A shoots lights out with one load does not mean that Gun B, coming off the line right behind it, will do the same. The other nugget is that YOUR particular hold will have a profound impact on where the gun prints. I could sight it in perfectly dead on balls at 25yds, hand it to you and it print 3" low and 6" to the right.

So pretty please, with sugar on top, shoot the damned thing.

 

[frontstuffers]

Craig C, normally I wouldn't even bother giving you the time of day (so to speak) by responding to such a childish comment. However, just for you, I will. We are all so blessed that you impart such childish responses "So pretty please, with sugar on top, shoot the damned thing" to a legitimate question. AND, " from +30yrs experience " Oh my, a whole +30 years, my God man, why aren't you sitting on a mountain top doling out you vast knowledge to the rest of us mere mortals. There was absolutely NOTHING in your latest, sarcastic response of any use what so ever. I am very much aware of the differences in each firearm and shooter, sight picture, grip, etc. And, there was nothing in my op that suggests "even when it's not what you want to hear or sugar coated". Where do you get this stuff? It was a very simple question that you seemed to have missed. sorry the intent went over your head, don't see how you could have missed it with as large as that must me. As previously stated, "Pisgah's reply came closest". THAT is all I was looking for. Caliber makes no difference what so ever. If you can't contribute something positive with your childish sarcastic remarks, do us all a favor and just pass over anything you see of this nature and let the adults continue with the discussion. And for the record, I have over almost 50 years experience shooting, including 20 years military small arms, competition shooting, and reloading for at least the last 40 years. There, you have your 5 minutes of fame, I have lowered myself to your standard of response. Rejoice, be happy, once again you have regaled us with your posts.

Now, I am going to ask the moderators to lock this so that others aren't bothered by useless flaming.

 

[CraigC]

It's not childish. It's not sarcastic. It may not be what you wanted to hear but it's the blunt truth. Some folks don't like the truth, even when it's spoonfed to them. Did you, even for a minute, entertain the possibility that I might be right? This forum, like most, is free. The information you obtain from it, is free. If you ask a question and get an answer you don't like, ignore it. It's worth at least what you paid for it. :roll:

Caliber makes no difference what so ever.

Oh really? Now how are we supposed to answer this question if we don't know what cartridge your revolver is chambered for??? Would you have preferred a guess, even if it was wrong?

I was wondering what load/bullet selection that Ruger uses to determine their factory sight settings?

And for the record, I have over almost 50 years experience shooting, including 20 years military small arms, competition shooting, and reloading for at least the last 40 years.

Yet here we are.

 

[308longdistance]

I read here from someone that worked there that they use Federal 158 grain classic 357 magnum ammo to test their revolvers.
They are definitely regulated for 158gr 357 magnum rounds.

edit to add. Looks like Federal took 'Classic' off of the new packaging.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/277492/federal-premium-personal-defense-ammunition-357-magnum-158-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-20

What he said..... :mrgreen:

 

[frontstuffers]

308, I agree.

There are at least 5 different caliber offerings, that I am aware of, in the SP's and I have two. With new firearms coming out on a fairly frequent basis these days, especially for concealed carry, and the manufacturers touting that they will handle the latest whiz bang defense load it is good to have a reference for a starting point. it also makes a big difference if you have fixed or adjustable sights. I am definitely not used to fixed sights yet. I am learning though and that is the fun part. And correcting a fail on my part earlier, I have 2 in .357 (fixed sight 3" and one of the newer 4" with adjustable sights) and one in .32 H&R mag. Really like all 3, great shooters and fun.

 

[frontstuffers]

I would also like to apologize to all of you that were subjected to the useless banter that I posted. I normally try to avoid that as I have the utmost respect for the members here and it serves no purpose to spout off. I come here and ask questions because I normally receive very good assistance and information and am grateful for those willing to share. I will do my best to stay on subject in the future.

Bill