Does a non functioning firearm require an FFL transfer?

[Pistolero]

I have an old non-functioning shotgun that I would like to sell locally. The buyer stated that his FFL informed him that a non-functioning firearm does not require an FFL between private parties. New Mexico requires an FFL transfer for firearms, but the statute does not address non-working guns. Any FFLs out there that can answer this for me?

Many thanks,

 

[hittman]

I’m not an FFL but seem to lean towards “better safe than sorry”.

There’s surely a difference in non functioning between something like extractor broken vs receiver sawed in half.

 

[Pistolero]

I’m not an FFL but seem to lean towards “better safe than sorry”.

There’s surely a difference in non functioning between something like extractor broken vs receiver sawed in half.

Agree. I received this response from another source and thought I would share it:
"It depends on the laws of your jurisdiction. NM doesn't allow their residents to conduct private firearm sales without the interaction of a FFL or background check. Makes no difference if the firearm is functional or not. If it has a serial number on it, and it has not been certified as "de-milled" with the accompanying BATFE letter, than it is simply looked at as broken but still a firearm."

I need to move to a red state.

 

[hittman]

Now, if it’s over 50 years old and you’re both an 03 FFL ….. there’s your answer.

 

[Busterswoodshop]

According to the ATF , a gun is a gun , no matter wether it works or not.
Selling privately , depends on what state you are in.
In Arizona selling a gun between private parties is no different than selling a lawn mower.
Shipping a gun across state lines requires an FFL no matter what state you are in.
The seller doesn't necessarily have to ship from an FFL , but it must be received through an FFL.

 

[dweis]

A non-functioning gun can often be transformed into a functioning gun with little effort. The law makes no distinction based upon functionality. A gun is a gun, and it requires a FFL transfer whenever state or federal laws require same

 

[powder smoke]

Private sales of firearms in this jurisdiction is perfectly legal No FFL needed.
Heck people run ads in the paper selling firearms. No Problems!

 

[XP100]

DEpends on your state laws. Working or not it is still a firearm.

 

[powder smoke]

Parts are parts I would think an inoperable fire arm is nothing more than Parts YMMV. ps

 

[Dan in MI]

By fed regs the serial numbered part is a firearm. The non functional statement is a smokescreen. A stripped receiver is non functional.

State regs are all different, so you need to know your local laws.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

By fed regs the serial numbered part is a firearm.

^^^THIS^^^

 

[Chance]

Agree. I received this response from another source and thought I would share it:
"It depends on the laws of your jurisdiction. NM doesn't allow their residents to conduct private firearm sales without the interaction of a FFL or background check. Makes no difference if the firearm is functional or not. If it has a serial number on it, and it has not been certified as "de-milled" with the accompanying BATFE letter, than it is simply looked at as broken but still a firearm."

I need to move to a red state.

If made after 1898 and goes boom it is a firearm according to ATF. Function or non functioning is of no consequence. Doesn't even need a serial. I have 100s of entries in my Fed Log Book with NVSN (no visible serial number) in the listing. How each state deals with a firearm varies.

 

[jimirwin]

I have an old non-functioning shotgun that I would like to sell locally. The buyer stated that his FFL informed him that a non-functioning firearm does not require an FFL between private parties. New Mexico requires an FFL transfer for firearms, but the statute does not address non-working guns. Any FFLs out there that can answer this for me?

Many thanks,

The guy asked for a reply from an FFL. Those who responded to any response thread starting with "I'm not an FFL" have just muddied the waters with their opinions;...a complete counterproductive waste of time (IMNSHO).
I am an FFL and can respond to the letter of the FEDERAL firearms laws. Even a rusty, stripped down frame IS the FIREARM, even if it has no serial number, and is required by FEDERAL law to be treated as such in all respects.
Stupid, perhaps, but that's the same with many laws, eh?

 

[RoninPA]

I am also a FFL - Federal law says functional or not, serialized or not, it is still a firearm so you MUST go by both FEDERAL and New Mexico STATE laws when selling or transferring firearms, working or non-working. You should be able to go to the NM DOJ or State Police/Hwy Patrol/Sheriff to point you in the right direction. There should be a NM Firearms Laws website you can find to give you the NM statutes in black and white. Don't ask the average policeman/deputy they probably don't know and could give you bad info.

 

[RSIno1]

It's still a gun - the law only exempts dewat those deactivated in a specific manner. New Mexico requires an FFL transfer for firearms - so that is what you need to do. I'll wager that FFL won't give you a signed letter that it's OK to transfer since it's not working.

 

[Dan in MI]

It’s good to know this information is relegated ONLY to FFL holders and not the general public. I do have one question though, when you turn in your FFL do the feds come and denuralize all sensitive information you may know?

Don’t forget the OP came to internet for legal advice.


Jan 2023 edit- this post was in response to the implication that only FFL’s had the answer.

 

[blume357]

I find it kind of amusing that when ever some question like this comes up those that have an FFL tend to talk down to us and almost always appear to praise existing laws that they have to abide by.....

Oh and I'm not an FFL but I will say that I know that a firearm with a serial number is a firearm according to the government whether it functions or not.

 

[krw]

When a strippd AR lower has to be shipped to a FFL and papered, that answers the question

 

[40nascar]

Firearms manufactured prior to 1898 do not require a dealer transfer. That's the only exception for a firearm that fires a shell or cartridge. Black Powder firearms also do not require a dealer transfer, no matter the date of manufacture.

 

[RoninPA]

I find it kind of amusing that when ever some question like this comes up those that have an FFL tend to talk down to us and almost always appear to praise existing laws that they have to abide by.....

Oh and I'm not an FFL but I will say that I know that a firearm with a serial number is a firearm according to the government whether it functions or not.

Hopefully, my comment below is not taken politically:

Boy, I hope my answer wasn't construed as "talking down" to people, I was just trying to give the information that the BATFE/State regs say.

Also, I think that if you asked different FFL's, across the nation, they DO NOT "praise" the laws that they have to abide by. The FFL's I know and correspond with on a forum that ONLY FFL's can read/post, all of us want less gun laws and want the politicians to stop messing with the rights of US citizens and adhere with the 2nd Amendment as it is written "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

 

[bisleyfan41]

This is mostly true, however there's a semi-local FFL who successfully lobbied the state govt to pass universal background checks so that he could profit from the transfer fees he'd get as a result. So, there are some.

 

[bisleyfan41]

Firearms manufactured prior to 1898 do not require a dealer transfer. That's the only exception for a firearm that fires a shell or cartridge. Black Powder firearms also do not require a dealer transfer, no matter the date of manufacture.

^THIS^

 

[blume357]

I really did not take offense and was just poking the bear to a degree.... it's more I read some of the post and I'm sure it's just me. I for sure would not want to lose the input of those hear that are FFL's and actually know the laws (for good or bad) better than me.

As a side note about our rights or lack of them: I was reading in the political forum on Thursday about the Supreme Court decision in regards to the 'may issue laws' of some states.... and saw someone making a comment about the notion that this decision expanded gun rights and that it really restored some rights to some citizens in certain states.... the point being I walked out yesterday morning and picked up our supposed local paper The Greenville News and there on the front page was the headline: "Expanding gun rights in the U.S."
I think I will write a letter to the editor.

 

[caryc]

Well, you can take a hand gun apart and ship someone just the frame only. Since the frame has the guns serial number on it, it is considered a gun and must go through an FFL.

That should pretty much answer your question.

 

[40nascar]

Well, you can take a hand gun apart and ship someone just the frame only. Since the frame has the guns serial number on it, it is considered a gun and must go through an FFL.

That should pretty much answer your question.

What would be the point of that? Might as well ship the complete firearm to the ffl.

 

[blume357]

One of the anti's issues is you can buy an unfinished AR receiver that has no serial number because it requires a few more holes drilled in it and then proceed to finish it and then buy all the other parts and build your own 'unregistered' and we say 'undocumented' firearm. And all this with out going through an FFL.

 

[caryc]

What would be the point of that? Might as well ship the complete firearm to the ffl.

I was just giving you an example of what shipping laws require but I guess you could not figure that out. Keep thinking about it. It might suddenly make sense to you. A cylinder frame certainly can not fire a cartridge can it? Is it a gun or is it not a gun?

 

[40nascar]

There is no shipping law. It's called the USC
( United States Code), under the firearms titles, administered by the BATF. The US Postal Service and private shippers will ship anything package you give them to process. If you ship contraband, you would be prosecuted under the USC , by referral of BATF.

 

[Thanatos]

As long as its a gun, and antique or not it goes through an FFL.

 

[jkingrph]

Not technically a FFL, but I have a C&R license. I have purchased long arms and had them delivered by the USPS . one held at the local post office and they had an idea of what it was, with no problems. I also had a handgun delivered to my house by UPS. Both items were over 50 years old, but the same model or essientally the same model are currently being manufatured. Had I not had a C&R license I suppose they would have been "contraband"