Did I mess up?

[Sky1]

My silent car alarm went off yesterday early morning waking me from a phone alert. I initially thought it was a false alarm but grabbed my LC9 with Laser to go investigate. I did not turn on any lights and did not see anything on my surveillance cameras and the motion lights were not on. I was about to turn around and go back to bed when I thought I saw a shadow move inside the car.
I was half awake still not believing that someone is there trying to steal my car. I walked up close and peered out the edge of a window and turned on the laser and shined it through my cars side window. The person ducked down was lying in my car across the front seats but still could only see a shadow. Yes, he got a face full of pulsating green is go laser light.
Now I am kind of freaked out. In my state we are not supposed to shoot someone for just stealing property so what can I do?

My options were
Set off Panic alarm on home security system (has outside siren)
Go out there like john wayne and confront them (there were 2) I did not have another magazine with me and was in my undies
Go out there with pepper spray home defense gel

I just kept the laser on them through my passenger window, waiting to see if they would shoot first.
Ok I admit I froze, did not want to go out there and paly cop and get shot thought my best bet was to stay inside the house with sight and laser on target.
I ran to get my phone and they ran off like jackrabbits and before I got to dial 911 could hear them start a car and take off. (assume there were 3)

Cops got to my place in like 3 minutes. Our cops are great and I swear they sent everyone about 7 police cars.
In retrospect think I should have dialed 911 first even before I confirming the threat?
I need to know what you guys think, I am not a young guy anymore and don't feel like being a hero or dead over a car.
I would like to know what you would have done? My biggest fear is being "That guy" on TV and going to jail over some kids needing money for "Kolledge" and wanting to call the thief a victim.
I think I need to practice with various defense scenarios, cops said I did the right thing but should have called them first.
So now wondering what their plan is for when the return. Ok I admit, I'm a bit worried.
Should I have gone out and citizen arrested them? I probably could have but was it worth the risk IDK, Your thoughts?

 

[Mobuck]

Do you live in a 'Stand your ground' state? If so, I'd say you're justified.
Making a 'citizen's arrest' is sketchy at best and extremely bad at worst--especially if , as you said "Cops got to my place in like 3 minutes. Our cops are great".
Your camera video will prove what you did/didn't do and I'd be conservative as to what you tell those 'great cops'.

 

[Fox Mike]

911 would be the first thing. Then the brightest light I could find and shine it on the car. I would then turn on the laser and LOUDLY tell them that if they stat the car you will fire (though you know you won't. they don't know). If they were smart (though unlikely) they would do what they ended up doing ... leave. You still have your car and no one is harmed.

 

[GunnyGene]

Practicing different scenario's is always a good idea. The problem is there is nearly an infinite variety of them, as the police themselves will tell you. I think you did pretty well this time, showing some adaptation and improvisation (albeit with a couple minor hiccups). It's always a guessing game since you don't know how the encounter will progress. The other guy(s) always has a vote in what happens next from second to second.

There's also some old school tech you could install - either hardwired or remote - that disables the ignition/starter so that no amount of fiddling with hot wiring from inside the car will start it unless you allow it.

 

[Dan in MI]

Call 911 first.

Have a toy green laser pointer handy. Then you can say you pointed it to scare them. Then only you and the Almighty know what you were pointing at them.

 

[OMCHamlin]

Well, assuming that there was no one else who knew they were there, I would have handled things a little differently. I have a fair amount of low marshy land though. I'd like to hope that I wouldn't have said a word to anyone, before or after.

 

[gunzo]

Not having the phone with you is an admitted mistake, so keep that in mind. Can you go to call mode & dial it while still training the gun on where it should be? No one else in the home that could stay behind to watch your back & wait for instructions incase you did find something or get in trouble?
While an LC9 might be a good pocket gun, one that you'll likely have with you, it's a gun to get you out of a jam, not one for going to a potential altercation. Consider adding a bigger, higher cap piece for a bump in the night gun if allowed in your area. Don't dismiss the idea of having a reload, but a higher cap gun will help here if ya don't. And,,, performing a reload with full success while under stress will need a lot of practice & training. A lot.

So many things to consider, but you sound like you've observed several things to to change or fine tune. You got a lesson for free, no one hurt, no loss of property, & I have a feeling you'll learn a lot from it. Few of us know what we'll do under similar circumstances, I'll not armchair this further.

 

[gnappi]

Tough call but having your phone on you at T=0 and dialing 911 is a good idea.

 

[DGW1949]

Being's how you asked......Your tactics were terrible, but I guess it all ended OK....I didn't get the parts about you being in your under ware, concerned that there was two of them and not having a spare magazine, or peering into a dark confined area while switching on a light so the bad guy's will immediately know right where you are. Nor of calling the police AFTER it was over, but I don't know, maybe your vehicle sustained damage and you needed to file a report for your insurance company?.....I dunno what else to say except that I'm glad you didn't get hurt or kilt, one of which will surely happen if you keep putting yourself into harms way like that.....All in all, me thinks that you were very lucky....Give some thought to getting some proper training, that would be my suggestion.

DGW

 

[contender]

Having a phone as well as a self defense item is how you investigate suspicious things.
The moment you suspect something bad, an immediate call to 911 should be the first thing done.
You were in your house that offered you some protection from the potential danger that might have occurred.
Confronting the unknown can be full of surprises and “What if’s “ after the fact.
Setting off the alarm can scare away most thieves, but not always.
The only thing that I see wrong was you not having your phone with you.

Personally, if I were to be confronted by a similar situation, as far away the cops are, I would acted differently. But that is me and my understanding of things around here.
I would not care if I was butt naked or whatever, if I feel the need to confront something, I will.

 

[DGW1949]

Then again, some of us keep a pair of pants handy at night in case we might need them quick. Plus, I spent some 50 years in Texas where the Law permits the use of deadly force "in order to prevent the consequences of theft at night time".....I haven't been here in Mississippi long enough to learn how She wants it handled, so I can't say. But I can say that I ain't confronting a bad guy on my property with a gun in my hand unless I'm prepared to use it....Regardless of all that though, one doesn't peer into a dark vehicle and turn on a light, especially when already knowing that there's at least one bad guy in there.....It's like holding a sign that reads "shoot here"...That's just basic common sense....Like I said, the OP was lucky. No offense intended.

DGW

 

[Goldstar225]

My recommendation in this case:

-Arm up and visually check out the situation from inside the house, have communication available. Do nothing to give away your presence or location
-Once you confirm a problem (as you did) call police.
-Keep an eye on the thieves and give updates to the police dispatcher

As you said police arrived in force in three minutes. Taking the above steps would keep you safe and greatly increased the chances that the crooks would be captured.

 

[rugerguy]

good info above and I agree with DGW , you were lucky, you said maybe 3? what if there were 4?? never know who is also there, as look out?, as well as the driver??.much like going back into a fire, gotta let someone KNOW.......yes dial 9-1-1, as you start to act, and that will actually be recorded, may help you out in the long run,,,yes, the phone, the light, the gun, all tools to help you get the job done.....:cool::rolleyes:;)

 

[375hh1973]

Citizen arrest is about the last thing I would ever do.

Ever.

 

[GypsmJim]

Were they truly trying to steal the car? Or were they teenyboppers looking for an unlocked car to screw in?

I AM armed and will protect myself if needed. But if I suspect a burglary I will call 911 first and stand by with magnum in hand. Flashing a light in the car window it the last thing I would do. If they are thiefs what's to say they don't have an AR with them?

Moot point for me though. My cars are too valuable to leave outside. That's what my garage is for.

Interesting sidebar......just last night a Sheriffs deputy came to the front door and said there has been a rash of car break-ins in the town. Suggested I keep that car (pointing to it) inside. I said it was my son's that merely came over for dinner and he has his own garage.

I had a lot of respect for the local Sheriff. Now I have more.

 

[XUSNORDIE]

WOW. A whole lot to unpack.

I did not turn on any lights

Why?

My options were
Set off Panic alarm on home security system (has outside siren)
Go out there like john wayne and confront them (there were 2) I did not have another magazine with me and was in my undies
Go out there with pepper spray home defense ge

Panic alarm would have been great....I'm assuming it also contacts your alarm company and they alert LE?
Go out there? Why?
Pepper spray/gel?
There was only one good option there in my opinion.

I just kept the laser on them through my passenger window, waiting to see if they would shoot first.

Waiting for them to shot first? and you were considering going out there with pepper spray/gel?

Cops got to my place in like 3 minutes. Our cops are great and I swear they sent everyone about 7 police cars.

That's great to hear. You are fortunate. A lot of Depts are undermanned and over worked with large SOCs (span of control).

In retrospect think I should have dialed 911 first even before I confirming the threat?

Yes 911 first. What threat? Attempted theft is not a threat of bodily harm.

I would like to know what you would have done?

Weapon in hand, lights on, when suspects were confirmed in car I would have called 911 and stayed on the line giving updates. Sounds to me like if you did that they would have been apprehended.

So now wondering what their plan is for when the return

If you had called 911 they most likely would have been apprehended and not returned.

Should I have gone out and citizen arrested them? I probably could have but was it worth the risk IDK, Your thoughts?

Hell no. You said there were two, maybe three. Going out to "citizen arrest" them with a weapon could easily be spun into you instigating armed confrontation. Being armed for defense is one thing, but going on the offensive is an entirely different thing you'd better be able to defend extensively in court

You stated your local LE are great, and the response time to scene was 3 min. Looks like you had an answer that could have had the suspects apprehended, but didn't use it......now you know for next time.

 

[jack black]

You made a lot of mistakes. You went outside not knowing who or what was out there
You went up to the window and peeked in
You were waiting for them to fire first
You turned your back on them and ran back into the house
Now think about all that

Best Wishes

 

[Mobuck]

Locally, we're experiencing a high number of smash and grab vehicle burglaries. Sounds like you caught one in the act.

 

[kentucky yeti]

You made a lot of mistakes. You went outside not knowing who or what was out there
You went up to the window and peeked in
You were waiting for them to fire first
You turned your back on them and ran back into the house
Now think about all that

Best Wishes

I guess we read that differently. As I read it, he shined his laser through his home window and into the passenger side car window without going outside.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Yep a lot of mistakes made. I would have called 911 first them I would have held them until police arrived. Yes, in Texas you can make a citizen arrest as long as it is a felony.
This is how I handled a stressful situation that could have ended bad. Probably not the best way but it ended OK

Well Guys,
This is a first.
I had just got out of the shower and into my skivvy shorts when I hear Spanish being spoken in my upstairs. Yea where the unloaded guns are. All except for my 1918-1911 which was in my hand. Doesn't take long for this old one-eyed fat man to get to the nightstand. Oh, yea you can bet your sweet arsh it's loaded.
No one in my family speaks Spanish except me. Like in Dosh Cervasisaioes Perdever, OR 2 beers and be damn quick about it. So probably not family members.
Well I can hear footsteps and Spanish upstairs so I take a few minuets to get my wits together. I clear all the downstairs rooms very quietly. I then go to the bottom of the stairs and use the door next to the stairs as cover for left barricade.
As I slowly peek around the door I see a female at the top of the stairs with her back to me. I'm now in firing position when I say "Alto" very loud and clear. Well, she turns around and her eyes get very large. Probably because she has never seen and old fat white guy in his skives. Well maybe the 1911 aimed at her chest might have had a little to do with it. I did not have the hammer back, but thumb was on it. No problem since I have the fastest thumb this side of the Missisip.I might add that I was in the proper stance with a beautiful two hand hold.. Well about this time female # 2 comes out with a phone in hand and talking to someone. Well I didn't see much of a threat in being phoned to death so I relaxed a little, but gun was still pointed to #1 female. Very good thing a guy didn't come out with her. Things could have gotten realllllllll ugly.
# 2 comes downstairs and hands me phone. I ask just who the hell might I be speaking to. Well, it was my neighbor who was at work, and he told me these were his new maids that came to clean his house.
I wasn't to polite in the the way I told him to tell the dumb arsh maids what a house #15 which is mine and a#13 which is his look like. He thinks it is funny, and I told him so he could understand how this could have gone wrong. I will be talking to him like a Stepson when I see him FTF.
So the maids came into the garage by way of patio door then into house from the garage. Wifeie had left through garage, so door is unlocked. Doors are unlocked most of the time anyway.
Well, that was a fun way to start the day. All bad things have good. Gave me another story to write for you guys. The story well was just about empty.
Jim

 

[Johnnu2]

Just call the cops .... I mean seriously, it's just a car...!!!
Yeah, if you're in the middle of nowhere....just exit and keep running.
In your house(?)........... again, exit and keep running....your wife and kids can handle the problem :)
J.

 

[Mike J]

I would most likely just call the police & let them handle it. I have seen pictures from more than one ring doorbell camera lately of car thieves. There was the one in the car stealing it, then there was the one standing next to the car with an AK pistol pointed at the house watching. If I did feel it was necessary for me to go outside I would turn on the front porch light & the flood lights that cover the driveway. I would leave the lights inside the house off. Then I would quietly go out the back door where everything would still be dark, take a look & make a decision. I wouldn't shine a laser. If I did choose to shine a laser or light I would hold it out away from my body. There might be a bullet coming back.

 

[daveag.]

Citizen arrest is about the last thing I would ever do.

Eve

Gomer threatened to make a Citizen’s Arrest once. He warned them several times.

 

[Jeepnik]

Some years ago Mas Ayoob wrote an article about having a gunbelt kept near your bed. It would have things like flashlight, pepper spray, cell phone etc. It caught some flak over it. I don't have a gunbelt by my bed. I do have a pair of jeans with stuff in the pockets. That way my private bits (I sleep naked) will be covered should I have to confront anyone. Being naked does seem to, psychologically at least, put one at a disadvantage.

 

[blume357]

I think contender is right, the only thing you did wrong was not having your phone with you. I would not turn on lights if they were going to light me up too. Drives me crazy, well I actually already am, when on TV someone hears a noise outside their house and the first thing they do is turn a light on in the house and then look out the window, but that is TV.

 

[XUSNORDIE]

Being naked does seem to, psychologically at least, put one at a disadvantage

Well, that depends on the size of your gun right? :oops:

I would not turn on lights if they were going to light me up too

When I spoke to the lights, I was referring to outside lights. One, outside lights if already on can sometimes deter problems. Two, criminals don't want to be seen/identified and will normally flee if a outside light comes on. Three, that outside light will sometimes make it hard to see into the house if they gave it a thought.

Lots of scenarios and opinions will surface on this from past experiences, training, or just ones mindset.

When you have spent many hours in a courtroom, listening to a full docket of crimes, observing tactics from both prosecution and defense, and even testifying and being cross examined.....you learn a lot about the "after the fact" when people take things into their own hands. Just say'n.....if you want to be a hero in a situation like this you better make darn sure you can explain EVERY little thing you did was to protect yourself from bodily harm and did not instigate or become offensive in any possible way.

In my opinion, 'in this scenario' going outside to confront them could be a bad thing turning you from a victim to an aggressor.

 

[peachhead]

I wouldn't call it a mistake if the desired result was achieved. The would be thief ran off, the cops showed, he still has his car and no blood was shed.
If I were going to do anything different, it would be maybe hit the panic button. If nothing else you probably would have scared the crap out of him (more than you already did).
Just my .02

 

[SmarryLith]

My silent car alarm went off yesterday early morning waking me from a phone alert. I initially thought it was a false alarm but grabbed my LC9 with Laser to go investigate. I did not turn on any lights and did not see anything on my surveillance cameras and the motion lights were not on. I was about to turn around and go back to bed when I thought I saw a shadow move inside the car.
I was half awake still not believing that someone is there trying to steal my car. I walked up close and peered out the edge of a window and turned on the laser and shined it through my cars side window. The person ducked down was lying in my car across the front seats but still could only see a shadow. Yes, he got a face full of pulsating green is go laser light.
Now I am kind of freaked out. In my state we are not supposed to shoot someone for just stealing property so what can I do?

My options were
Set off Panic alarm on home security system (has outside siren)
Go out there like john wayne and confront them (there were 2) I did not have another magazine with me and was in my undies
Go out there with pepper spray home defense gel

I just kept the laser on them through my passenger window, waiting to see if they would shoot first.
Ok I admit I froze, did not want to go out there and paly cop and get shot thought my best bet was to stay inside the house with sight and laser on target.
I ran to get my phone and they ran off like jackrabbits and before I got to dial 911 could hear them start a car and take off. (assume there were 3)

Cops got to my place in like 3 minutes. Our cops are great and I swear they sent everyone about 7 police cars.
In retrospect think I should have dialed 911 first even before I confirming the threat?
I need to know what you guys think, I am not a young guy anymore and don't feel like being a hero or dead over a car.
I would like to know what you would have done? My biggest fear is being "That guy" on TV and going to jail over some kids needing money for "Kolledge" and wanting to call the thief a victim.
I think I need to practice with various defense scenarios, cops said I did the right thing but should have called them first.
So now wondering what their plan is for when the return. Ok I admit, I'm a bit worried.
Should I have gone out and citizen arrested them? I probably could have but was it worth the risk IDK, Your thoughts?

Like others said don’t leave you phone behind.
Also, Just be glad he didn’t have a layoff guy to shoot you in the back as you pointed your gun at him.
Next time I’d call 911 from inside your house. Also, if you’re outside with a gun and the police were already following/watching these guys you could be mistaken for the theives.

 

[Rat76]

I guess we read that differently. As I read it, he shined his laser through his home window and into the passenger side car window without going outside.

Thanks, I missed the "edge of the window" part. Puts a different slant on things.

Yep, 911 & stay put.

 

[bhp9]

In Ohio its illegal to shoot people over losing property. Some people have gone to prison over it especially when they killed the robber and even worse when the person they killed was a kid. One guy shot and killed a star high school football player (worshiped as a God) who broke into his home in the middle of the night. the Kid was not armed. The Homeowner went bankrupt fighting the homicide and civil lawsuits leveled against him.

One guy shot and killed a man who opened his car door and started to choke him. The car owner pulled out a .45 and killed him. It turned out it was a case of mistaken identity by the home owner who had only recently had property damage done from a car of the same red color. The man's wife then sued the car owner for "loss of companionship" and she won a big settlement from an anti-gun hating judge.

Its not worth losing your life in a shootout over property. Simply call the police and if possible give them the license number of the car and a description of the car and suspects. Do not let the suspects know you are watching them.

Some people have been know to shine a light on them from inside the house or turn on a garage light but that invites them to shoot at you.

Remember also that if you shoot young kids it will go badly for you even if you are not charged with a homicide because its most likely the parents will launch a Civil Suit against you and many Juries have often awarded the parents lots of money, enough to bankrupt you for life plus the money you will spend defending yourself in court. I knew one guy who lost his business to his lawyer because he owed the lawyer so much money and he still lost in court.

Just ask yourself the question " Is it worth spending thousands defending yourself in court, and even possibly going to prison or is it just a lot cheaper to potentially lose your property if the Cops do not get there in time?