Deer pistol cal. ???

[Enigma]

As stated, each state is going to have different laws governing what handguns are legal for deer hunting. The DPRM (Democratic Peoples Republic of Maryland) requires a minimum 6" barrel, and a cartridge that develops a minimum of 700 foot-pounds of muzzle energy. That effectively eliminates the .357 Mag. In fact, I had to go out and buy another handgun just to hunt with. My 5.5" .45 Colt Redhawk was ruled out, as were my 4-5/8" .45 and .44 Mag Blackhawks, and 6 and 6.5" S&W .45Colt and .44 Spl.

I ended up buying a really sweet used 7.5" Bisley Blackhawk in .44 Mag for deer hunting. I sometimes use rather warm .44 Special loads in it, but I won't tell the DNR if y'all don't!

While I know full well that my 5.5" .45 Colt Redhawk shooting a 270-320 grain lead bullet at 1100 fps or so is more than adequate for whitetail deer, I'm not going to take the chance of running into a DNR cop (no, they don't call them game wardens in Maryland) while I'm out hunting.

 

[44-357]

I will be useing my 7 an half inch super redhawk 44mag this year to deer hunt with.it has a burris 2-7 scope on it.it shoots great groups with 240JHPs out to 50yards.

 

[Texas Jack Black]

Many fine responces but I do not believe handgun calibers kill by shock .They are on par with a bow. Now the Rifle calibers that are used in single shot pistols traveling in excess of 2500 fps deliver shock .Handgun bullets at less than that magic 2500 fps there abouts deliver no shock. They are a punch and nothing more and kill by causing blood to leak out just like an arrow IMHO

 

[Groo]

Killing stuff is often only argued with the scalar metrics of energy or velocity. It needs to be a vector with a biological quality factor regarding what is hit - where the energy is placed and whether that energy is effective in biological destruction via loss of electrical signal, pressure loss, structural damage via mechanical breakage, chemical reaction or pressure wave. That is all animal/biology dependent so we usually end up removing that from the discussion because it is an unknown variable and we simply discuss energy, velocity and bullet mass or design.

The key to discussing energy and damage though is the actual amount of energy transfer and where. A very important thing to effectiveness is that it be a critically damped energy transfer - no energy retention of the projectile after the medium, total and complete energy dump. Complete bullet pass throughs only really stab the target and do not deliver energy dumps. The energy or velocity is carried away with the bullet. A hollow point that expends and stays in the game is total energy transfer. This is also why large caliber, heavy bullets going slow seem to work. Large meplats help slow the projectile down and stay in the animal. Staying in the animal equals energy transfer. Velocity going to zero in the animal is energy transfer. It is not the only important factor that is good for killing things. All the other animal and biology dependent aspect of killing still apply but this is important. Total energy transfer on an ankle just isn't going to do it. Put it in the boiler room and liquidate the innards. Minimal energy transfer but with proper shot placement in the CNS still works.

Groo here
There is one other thing to this equation and that is the energy
expended to deform the bullet.
JD Jones and I had a talk about this same thing and he suggested
a simple test...
Place the bullet in question in a vice and apply pressure
until it has expanded to the size you observe or expect..
Take note how hard you must lean on the handle ,then think how
much mechanical advantage there is in the handle, then how much in the screw of the vice...
This energy is applied to the bullet not to the target..
This test helps to explain why cast bullets work so well when
compared to jhp or jsp bullets when one would think
they would be much worse...

 

[ClintV]

Many fine responces but I do not believe handgun calibers kill by shock .They are on par with a bow. Now the Rifle calibers that are used in single shot pistols traveling in excess of 2500 fps deliver shock .Handgun bullets at less than that magic 2500 fps there abouts deliver no shock. They are a punch and nothing more and kill by causing blood to leak out just like an arrow IMHO

I gotta disagree with ya Jack. Look at the factory ballistics on any reasonable handgun hunting round, and you are going to find most of them deliver in excess of 700 ft lbs. That energy has to be displaced somewhere. That is why jacketed bullets expand, to disrupt more tissue and cause greater shock/crush cavity. It is also the reason many states adopt minimum caliber restrictions for all firearms, to insure that folks aren't trying to take an animal with an inadequate firearm/caliber.

Either weapon may eventually cause an animal to die from loss of blood, but the key is to cause RAPID loss of blood. A punch is a poor choice to do that. That is why archers use broadheads rather than field points. A .357 isn't much larger in diameter than one of my cedar arrows (in fact I've used empty cases for years as blunts, just slip them over a bare shaft) Even a bow kills by shock, to a degree. Take that .357 blunt for example. When you bust a bunny or a squirrel with it, you don't kill it because you caused the blood to leak out, you kill it because of the energy transfered in the form of shock. Shoot said bunny with a broadhead, and you cause rapid loss in blood volume. Two decidely different means of attaining the same end. I think it'd be terribly irresponsible to suggest shooting any deer with a field point arrow, which is in essence nothing more than a punch. I can't see the logic in stating that a bullet is any different.

A .45 caliber hard cast may not deform, and it may make a caliber sized hole going in and coming out, but there is alot more at work than just punching a hole in something.

Where I might be able to agree with you is that in most cases a handgun is more akin to a bow when talking about the RANGES at which they are effective, both being relatively short range weapons when compared to a rifle. :wink:

 

[Texas Jack Black]

I must disagree. If you were hit by a 44 mag and it dumped its so called energy of say 800 ft lbs without penetrating your chest you would be bruised but far from dead If a 405 grain broad head hit you in the chest and fully penetrated you, dumping its 55 ft lbs you would surly die.
Punch a hole in the vitals and death occurs , So dumping all that so called energy from the 44 did little .Yet punch a hole clean through and death was certain.

 

[Knuckles]

:? I keep coming back to this thread like a pot of old beans,... it ain't getting any better with time.

 

[Texas Jack Black]

Yup, time to let the dog out .Have a cup of coffee and settle in for the night.

 

[Steve Myers]

not to be a SA, but a .22 WOULD kill it... Not that I would EVER recommend it...

Personally, make mine a BIG bore - 44 or 45 - 240-250 grn minimum - LSWC. I am old school and want a big bullet that makes a big hole and goes all the way through. I have hunted deer and boar with 44 Mag and 45 LC. Not killed one yet, as I am very shot selective. Probably will also hunt with my new Lipsey 44 SPC if the shot presents itself.