Cyl turn line

[George Tucker]

Owning several Flattops, and a 1972 Super, i have noticed that most Super Blackhawks do not have a turn line on the cyl, compaired to other Old Models, i know its a matter of timing, but did the Supers have more attention than other Mod Blackhawks?. thanks, George.

 

[pisgah]

Perhaps -- but from their owners, not the factory.

If an OM is properly handled, and the hammer is never lowered from halfcock but only from fullcock, it will not develop a line. An OM with a line has been abused.

 

[flatgate]

If a NM is properly "Modified" and the hammer is never lowered from halfcock it will not develop a line.
The trigger can be "set back" ala OM, as well.


flatgate

 

[Joe S.]

An OM with a line has been abused.

Will you explain why this is?

 

[SATCOM]

Proper cocking is ALWAYS all the way to full cock and release to fire or slow release while holding hammer. Any other way is abuse! No way to get cylinder drag line if proper cocking , fireing, or decocking are used.

This basic OM Ruger revolver operation along with hammer down on empty cylinder when carrying and is accomplished by load one, skip one, and load four.

SATCOM

 

[pisgah]

An OM with a line has been abused.

Will you explain why this is?

Sure. The only way the line gets scribed is if the gun is operated improperly; i.e., the hammer is not raised fully to fullcock before lowering. Work it as it was designed to be work and no line will be made. Same as with a Colt-pattern SAA.
If you see a line, a previous owner did not know how to operate the gun.

 

[omruger]

Sometimes it is because the Ruger single action is not set up properly. I have had two lately where the cylinder stop did not drop far enough and rubbed the cylinder each time it was turned. I could not slide a slip of paper between the cylinder and the stop when the gun was at half cock. A careful removal of a small amount of metal from the top of the stop solved the problem.

 

[JimP]

This is interesting because the Freedoms Arms booklet Clearly states that after loading you must lower the hammer from half cock, then rotate the cylinder slightly until it seats after which you can fully cock the hammer to shoot.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Well,
I got a few 3 screws and let me told ya some will leave a mark and some will not. You can bet your arsh I know how to use them

 

[NorEaster]

Well,
I got a few 3 screws and let me told ya some will leave a mark and some will not. You can bet your arsh I know how to use them

+1 On this! The whole the way you cock it bit is a myth!
I have had 4 ROAs in the past few years.
ROAs are built on the old model design.
Two of these ROAs I have owned were NIB consecutive serial numbers.
I treated them better than babies.
One formed a line and the other didn't
Drove me nuts!

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Well,
I got a few 3 screws and let me told ya some will leave a mark and some will not. You can bet your arsh I know how to use them

+1 On this! The whole the way you cock it bit is a myth!
I have had 4 ROAs in the past few years.
ROAs are built on the old model design.
Two of these ROAs I have owned were NIB consecutive serial numbers.
I treated them better than babies.
One formed a line and the other didn't
Drove me nuts!

Yep both my ROA leave a ring :evil: :evil:

 

[NorEaster]

Jim,
I need to head to Texas and do a CAS shoot with you.
It would be a blast.

 

[Hondo44]

There are several aspects to the cylinder ring issue:


#1. COLTS, RUGER 3 screws and Similar: Proper handling of these old design SAs is important but also, recognize that by design the Ruger cyl bolt comes up too soon!

Most do not realize that once you cock the hammer, even on a properly timed SA, you MUST COMPLETE THE CYCLE!! Never drop the hammer from safety notch or half cock; always cycle all the way thru the full cock position and then let the hammer down. If you don't, you get the same effect of the new model Rugers below: the cylinder has not been moved thru its full cycle which allows the bolt to pop up on the cylinder surface. Also, bolt springs on the old or new model SAs are always too strong! Use an after market lighter spring. Just don't go too light or under hard and fast cocking, you can slam the cylinder notch right past the bolt with potentially ugly results when the trigger is pulled. I have Colt's that I've shot for years with no ring on the cylinder at all; only a shiny spot in the approach ramp to the cylinder notch.

The Ruger cyl bolt actuating pin in the hammer base must be longer to improve Ruger's design and delay bolt rise until the cyl notch approach ramp is correctly aligned. Pm me for instructions about how to do it, another simple procedure.

#2. Handling NM RUGER SAs: I have blue Ruger SAs with barely a noticeable line not even thru the bluing after hundreds of Cowboy Shooting matches. Before closing the loading gate on new models, or or replacing the cylinder on old or new models, make sure to turn the cylinder by hand so the notch is aligned above the bolt to minimize the bolt rubbing on the cylinder surface.

#3. POLISHING THE CYLINDER BOLT: For all SA and DA revolvers - the single most important preventative action you can take and the 1st thing I do on any revolver of mine, new or used is pull the cylinder (or open it, in the case of DAs) and polish the cylinder bolt! They all come with file marks just waiting to carve out a line and groove in your cylinder finish!! With a VERY FINE abrasive wheel in your dremel tool, polish out the file marks and then with a felt buffing wheel and white rouge (for stainless steel) put a mirror finish on it. Don't forget to mask off the frame and breech face all around the bolt with duct tape because the dremel will slip off the bolt. And don't over do it unless it needs reshaping anyway to better fit your cylinder notches. If you do nothing else, this is the single most important thing you can do to avoid that ugly cylinder ring!

ONE MORE LITTLE TIDBIT TO PREVENT CYLINDER SCRATCHES WITH PROPER CARE:

Misc. circumference scratches that appear on single action cylinders can be caused while removing and replacing the cylinder for cleaning. A simple technique can easily avoid them. Cut a strip of paper about 8" long and the width of the cylinder. Insert it around the cylinder before removing the cylinder pin. Once you pull the pin, you can lift the cylinder out of the frame window by the paper and not have to worry about making contact with the edges of the frame. This is especially helpful when reinstalling the cylinder into the frame as you rotate it past the hand and align it with the cylinder pin as you push the pin back in.

As you can tell from other posts, not all care about this issue and are quick to tell you. The cylinder line scribed by the cylinder stop is about the most obvious sign of wear. Not just a sign of shooting but also of cycling, opening for checking or loading and unloading. If you aren't already aware, there are two things that you can do to mitigate or minimize further scribing on a DA revolver as well: 1st, when you close the cylinder, with your left hand grasp it around the bottom of the frame with thumb and forefinger each in the cylinder flutes opposite each other. Position them at 3:00 and 9:00 o'clock just as the cylinder locks into place. The stop will lock into the stop notch w/o having to rotate the cylinder against the stop. This will become a habit whenever you close a double action cylinder and you'll no longer have to think about doing it. This WILL prevent a full cylinder ring and limit it to an interrupted ring at the approach ramp to the notch.

 

[5of7]

My take on cylinder turn lines is this: Other than on collector pieces and other "safe queens" it is irrelevant. All it testifies to is that the gun has been used, and has no more significance than a little holster wear. It adds character to the gun.

If I had to be that careful with a gun for fear of leaving some evidence that it had been held in a human hand, I would give up shooting and take up golf.....or maybe restoring classic automobiles for show.

The above is not a recommendation to others, it is only my personal opinion. Please don't take it as a put-down. 8)

 

[Irelander]

Wish I had been told about how to avoid the cylinder turn line before I bought my first revolver last year. I figured it was unavoidable. Now I have two and both have very noticeable turn lines...especially my blued Vaquero. My Performance Center 629 also has it. Oh well, I guess I'll know for my next revolver.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Jim,
I need to head to Texas and do a CAS shoot with you.
It would be a blast.

Yea it would be GREAT meeting you also.
Every RF Member I have met are outstanding folks.
The ones that show up at the Ruger Fest are a good example. Their wives are also top notch.

Hondo,
Thanks so much for taking the time to explain this problem.
Looks like I need to do some work on a few of mine.
Thanks,
Jim

 

[Rclark]

My take on cylinder turn lines is this: Other than on collector pieces and other "safe queens" it is irrelevant. All it testifies to is that the gun has been used, and has no more significance than a little holster wear. It adds character to the gun.

If I had to be that careful with a gun for fear of leaving some evidence that it had been held in a human hand, I would give up shooting and take up golf.....or maybe restoring classic automobiles for show.

+1 . Couldn't say it any better . Other than what is a "safe queen"? . Hah!

What's Ruger Fest?

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Ruger Fest is a once a year get together we have in Fredericksburg Texas. Will be having our 4th in April

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=160705

 

[t-reg]

My take on cylinder turn lines is this: Other than on collector pieces and other "safe queens" it is irrelevant. All it testifies to is that the gun has been used, and has no more significance than a little holster wear. It adds character to the gun.

If I had to be that careful with a gun for fear of leaving some evidence that it had been held in a human hand, I would give up shooting and take up golf.....or maybe restoring classic automobiles for show.

The above is not a recommendation to others, it is only my personal opinion. Please don't take it as a put-down. 8)

+1, irrelevant.

Becoming a golfer would be quite a change in lifestyle.

 

[flatgate]

FWIW, one CAN modify the NM Lockwork to "retime" the dropping of the cylinder latch and delaying the contact of the cylinder by the cylinder latch. There's two ways to do this, however I ain't gonna post it on a web site. Nobody taught me but I sure did a lot of looking at the two designs (Old Model and New Model).

flatgate

 

[eveled]

My take on cylinder turn lines is this: Other than on collector pieces and other "safe queens" it is irrelevant. All it testifies to is that the gun has been used, and has no more significance than a little holster wear. It adds character to the gun.

If I had to be that careful with a gun for fear of leaving some evidence that it had been held in a human hand, I would give up shooting and take up golf.....or maybe restoring classic automobiles for show.

The above is not a recommendation to others, it is only my personal opinion. Please don't take it as a put-down. 8)

Amen brother! Big difference between abuse and use.

 

[Ruger36]

[Timing] Do you want a Ferrari or a Chev. Vega

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Well Guys,
Notice the two case hard guns no turn line after over 100,000 rounds. The other has not been fired that much in comparison and it has a turn line.
Just depends on the gun which has been stated
Jim

 

[NorEaster]

Understandably the cylinder ring can be an issue for some
My only issue is the presumption by some that I am not correctly using the revolver.
For those that are finding it a critical issue, I would check out this link
http://psychcentral.com/ocdquiz.htm

:lol:

 

[Ruger36]

The top two look to be in time the lower one the drag line only looks to be part way ,locking bolt coming up to soon ,likely plunger to short, but can be caused by other problems also, I;m interested in what Hondo thinks

 

[Ruger36]

I have one that I have had for twenty years plus and not shot much the timing is near perfect but have a half ring I have been guilty of letting hammer down from halfcock

 

[NorEaster]

I have one that I have had for twenty years plus and not shot much the timing is near perfect but have a half ring I have been guilty of letting hammer down from halfcock

Doh... now you'll be labeled for Blackhawk abuse :lol:

 

[Wyandot Jim]

I have one that I have had for twenty years plus and not shot much the timing is near perfect but have a half ring I have been guilty of letting hammer down from halfcock

Well Son,
That is a hanging offence in Texas The only way you can live and regain your reputation is.Ya need to send that poor ole abused shooter to me.
I will take a little COLD Blue and fix that shooter right up :wink: :wink:

 

[Goldstar225]

My take on cylinder turn lines is this: Other than on collector pieces and other "safe queens" it is irrelevant. All it testifies to is that the gun has been used, and has no more significance than a little holster wear. It adds character to the gun.

If I had to be that careful with a gun for fear of leaving some evidence that it had been held in a human hand, I would give up shooting and take up golf.....or maybe restoring classic automobiles for show.

The above is not a recommendation to others, it is only my personal opinion. Please don't take it as a put-down. 8)

Well said sir.

 

[JWhitmore44]

Wish I had been told about how to avoid the cylinder turn line before I bought my first revolver last year. I figured it was unavoidable. Now I have two and both have very noticeable turn lines...especially my blued Vaquero. My Performance Center 629 also has it. Oh well, I guess I'll know for my next revolver.

It's difficult to avoid on a Vaquero. The Vaquero is based on the New Model Blackhawk frame and lock work. You would either have to set up a half cock like an old model, or work over the timing so that the bolt latches in the last little bit of the turn. For most folks that shoot the New Models they live with the line.