https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/ot...S&cvid=962819b0a3d54a9688c6bc7315aff9a7&ei=10
Over hype? Real/ I don't know but just a story FYI
Over hype? Real/ I don't know but just a story FYI
CWD in Deer
- Thread starter MaxMan
- Start date
bobsyouruncle
Blackhawk
I have hunted in Oregon many decades. I have never seen chronic wasting disease.
My opinion... the Fish and Game department in Oregon thrives on hype, and uses it as an excuse to waste more and more money. As it is, we pretty much have to do a hospital quality hysterectomy and autopsy on much of the game we shoot. And employees man many of the stations that receive all this evidence. I never get results of any of this testing. But when I've submitted a question to them, they just never seem to have any time to reply to me.
Our regulations change so frequently, we cannot use the annual synopsis, but we have to call a robo-number to hear of the changes applicable to that day and area. And tickets are written regularly because a hunter or fisherman missed the daily change.
And in spite of this, our fish and game numbers are declining.
Fish and Game is a self serving government agency that provides little service, and employees of such agencies only serve themselves for their own job preservation.
My opinions are likely spirited and biased. But I am not alone. Our Fish and Game department is not thought of highly by the many experienced hunters and fisherman I associate with.
Heaven forbid we get huntable or destructive populations of pigs. ODFW would mess that up, too.
And if CWD expands to here, I would not trust ODFW for an answer or any help at all.
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My opinion... the Fish and Game department in Oregon thrives on hype, and uses it as an excuse to waste more and more money. As it is, we pretty much have to do a hospital quality hysterectomy and autopsy on much of the game we shoot. And employees man many of the stations that receive all this evidence. I never get results of any of this testing. But when I've submitted a question to them, they just never seem to have any time to reply to me.
Our regulations change so frequently, we cannot use the annual synopsis, but we have to call a robo-number to hear of the changes applicable to that day and area. And tickets are written regularly because a hunter or fisherman missed the daily change.
And in spite of this, our fish and game numbers are declining.
Fish and Game is a self serving government agency that provides little service, and employees of such agencies only serve themselves for their own job preservation.
My opinions are likely spirited and biased. But I am not alone. Our Fish and Game department is not thought of highly by the many experienced hunters and fisherman I associate with.
Heaven forbid we get huntable or destructive populations of pigs. ODFW would mess that up, too.
And if CWD expands to here, I would not trust ODFW for an answer or any help at all.
.
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Moving east into Virginia from Kentucky, still mostly in the western part of the state don’t think it’s east of the Blue Ridge yet but it’s definitely spreading. They say it’s not harmful to humans but I don’t think it’s worth testing that theory.
Missouri Dept of Conservation failed miserably during the 90's when something positive could have been done to monitor or control movement of CWD into our state. MDC claimed that high fence operations were 'livestock' rather than wildlife. Mo Dept of Ag said they had no knowledge of deer or how to manage deer health and flipped the problem back to MDC. End result'--nobody did anything and now we have a significant CWD problem. Just this morning, I happened to overhear a couple of farmers talking about the post season 'hotzone' deer reduction project. Both these farmers were in or near a hotzone (meaning a positive CWD deer had been killed during the previous season). While discussing the issues, it was discovered that one of the other farmers also knew what I was talking about and we'd had similar interactions with the bunny cops over unfettered deer importation (actually into the same high fenced hunting operation) and had received similar responses(both very poor) from MDC.
One thing that came up: Colorado and Wisconsin have had CWD problems for decades and have already tried the herd reduction angle w/o positive results. Both those states still have large herds of deer/elk that haven't been wiped out by CWD. One of the farmers showed a picture of a 150 class buck he'd shot on his farm in 2023. The buck looked fine and was in hot pursuit of a doe when killed BUT TESTED POSITIVE FOR CWD. Early stages of the disease or just a 'carrier'?
I don't have any good answers but I certainly know that someone dropped the ball and no one is going to take the blame.
One thing that came up: Colorado and Wisconsin have had CWD problems for decades and have already tried the herd reduction angle w/o positive results. Both those states still have large herds of deer/elk that haven't been wiped out by CWD. One of the farmers showed a picture of a 150 class buck he'd shot on his farm in 2023. The buck looked fine and was in hot pursuit of a doe when killed BUT TESTED POSITIVE FOR CWD. Early stages of the disease or just a 'carrier'?
I don't have any good answers but I certainly know that someone dropped the ball and no one is going to take the blame.
OP
I think there was a time when hunting was basic, simple and just you and your party or family/
GunnyGene
Hawkeye
We have that issue in parts of MS. Our wildlife guys say it's largely because of over population of the herd.
Here's the MS State info:
https://www.mdwfp.com/wildlife-hunting/chronic-wasting-disease/
Here's the MS State info:
https://www.mdwfp.com/wildlife-hunting/chronic-wasting-disease/
OP
Help me understand this.
You drop off a sample of venison I suppose, and you don't hear in 10 days it is said to be ok. So it sets in the fridge for that time. Or do you process it into steaks or whatever and if it comes back positive that's just wasted time and effort.
Down here Large Mouth Bass are said to accumulate mercury becuase thet are t the top of the food chain. Is CDW something like that?
It's a Prion disease...scary stuff.
For a good discussion, read Fatal Flaws by Jay Ingram. He pretty much outlines the history of prion research and what's going on now.
When I was working at UCSF we occasionally had to enter Stanley Prusiner's lab. (Prusiner was the doc who first figured out and named prions.)It was BSL3 with mucho precautions. This was in the early '90s. Creepy place.
For a good discussion, read Fatal Flaws by Jay Ingram. He pretty much outlines the history of prion research and what's going on now.
When I was working at UCSF we occasionally had to enter Stanley Prusiner's lab. (Prusiner was the doc who first figured out and named prions.)It was BSL3 with mucho precautions. This was in the early '90s. Creepy place.
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GunnyGene
Hawkeye
It's pretty much voluntary. All they want is the head and part of the neck. You can do what you want with the rest of it. They also get samples from fresh road kill occasionally. There's only been 317 positives out of 8955 samples taken since 2018, so it's not a huge problem statewide. Largely restricted to the counties bordering TN, and a couple along the Big Muddy.
Other States have their own system/rules.
Details here:
https://www.mdwfp.com/media/304915/23-cwd-regs-for-hunting-season-final.pdf
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MO has a requirement for testing during the first couple days of firearms deer season and voluntary testing through the remainder. Tissue samples from the upper neck(I can't remember name of the gland). Samples are collected and you do what you want with the carcass. MDC has 'drop off points' where hunters can submit samples during later portions of the season.
Eating the meat isn't normally dangerous since the prions are concentrated in the spine/brain/glands which most folks don't consume. Just make sure the processor doesn't split the spinal column during processing.
Several states forbid movement of whole carcasses into the state. MO is one of them. All the elk we've killed over the past 10 years have been boned and frozen before transporting.
Eating the meat isn't normally dangerous since the prions are concentrated in the spine/brain/glands which most folks don't consume. Just make sure the processor doesn't split the spinal column during processing.
Several states forbid movement of whole carcasses into the state. MO is one of them. All the elk we've killed over the past 10 years have been boned and frozen before transporting.
OP
I'm not a hunter, but thanks. Interesting knowledge.
OP
Thanks for the explanation
contender
Ruger Guru
"don't think it's east of the Blue Ridge yet"
I hate to be the bearer of bad news,, but CWD has been confirmed in northwestern NC. We have a few counties with alerts & restrictions.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news,, but CWD has been confirmed in northwestern NC. We have a few counties with alerts & restrictions.
In 2016 Tn started an identification process when Arkansas found CWD in their deer herds. Tn found CWD in two Western counties in 2018 precipitating certain regulations to control it.
https://www.tn.gov/twra/hunting/cwd/cwd-in-tennessee.htmlgramps
https://www.tn.gov/twra/hunting/cwd/cwd-in-tennessee.htmlgramps
CWD was found in one deer in west FL a couple of years ago, Holmes county I believe.
(Having trouble viewing this email? View it as a Web page.) April 17, 2024 Suggested post: FWC issues executive order with new #CWD regulations for 2024-25 deer season: https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/FLFFWCC/bulletins/3970143 #Florida FWC issues executive order with new CWD regulations for 2024-25 deer season On April 11, the FWC issued a new executive order outlining regulations designed to increase sampling and slow the spread of chronic wasting disease in Florida deer. Existing regulations pertaining to the establishment of the CWD Management Zone, prohibition of rehabilitating or releasing injured or orphaned deer, feeding restrictions, and prohibition of exporting high-risk parts remain in effect. New regulations include:
The FWC is asking anyone who sees a sick, abnormally thin deer or finds a deer dead from unknown causes to call the CWD hotline, 866-CWD-WATCH (866-293-9282) and report the animal's location. For more information, visit MyFWC.com/CWD. 
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Utah had some creep across the board from Colorado. The DWR actually has a pretty good write up and explanation of what you need to avoid:
https://wildlife.utah.gov/chronic-wasting-disease.html
Excerpt:
https://wildlife.utah.gov/chronic-wasting-disease.html
Excerpt:
- On all deer, bone out the meat, and avoid consuming the brain, spinal cord, eyes, spleen and lymph nodes of harvested animals.
OP
Does anyone actually eat these parts. Maybe fluid spill over in preparation or bullet traveling through these parts an transferring fluid. But deliberately on the dinner table?
I quit trying to understand what and why people eat what they eat, but I promise you.... I do not. DWR also these precautions:
- Do not handle or consume wild game animals that appear sick. Instead, contact your local DWR office and notify them of the location of the sick animal.
- Do not consume meat from animals known to be infected with CWD.
- Wear rubber or latex gloves when field dressing big game.
back around 1987 a brother in law killed a nice 9 point buck, his biggest ever, and decided to save the head for a mount.
B's grandpa came to the skinning tree with a bowl in his hand. After waiting a few minutes longer than he thought was necessary, grandpa says, "are you gonna saw them horns off so I can get them brains?"
BIL says no, I am going have the head mounted. Grandpa walked away mumbling in disbelief and disdain about being denied brains and eggs for breakfast.
Yes, people do eat brains, hearts, livers, etc. I don't but some folks do.
I was taught to head shoot squirrels if using a 22. But some folks say shoot the front shoulder so the head can be skinned and cooked to eat the brains.
BearBiologist
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https://vet.ucalgary.ca/news/chronic-wasting-disease-may-transmit-humans-research-finds
I never worked with prion diseases. The closest was collecting dead bird for H1N1 (Avian Flu) testing.
I never worked with prion diseases. The closest was collecting dead bird for H1N1 (Avian Flu) testing.
Seeing as how the people who are raising the alarms and questions are hunters.... it has squat to do with the anti-hunters.
BearBiologist
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/study-hunters-die-consuming-cwd-160020393.html
https://www.neurology.org/doi/10.1212/WNL.0000000000204407
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/chronic-... that, under,, agriculture, and public health
I do know that other wasting diseases such as Mad Cow Disease tend to affect older people more.
https://www.neurology.org/doi/10.1212/WNL.0000000000204407
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/chronic-... that, under,, agriculture, and public health
I do know that other wasting diseases such as Mad Cow Disease tend to affect older people more.
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The people raising the alarms are our self-appointed information providers and government agencies.
BearBiologist
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Also, State Game Departments are usually biased towards the "Hook and Bullet Crowd" because most of their funds come from the Pittman-Robertson Act (See below) and from license fees. For that reason, we called State Biologists "Biostitutes". Many times, I saw incorrect (accidental and deliberate) statistics used to bias a decision.
"The Pittman–Robertson Act took over a preexisting 11% excise tax on firearms and ammunition. Instead of going into the U.S. Treasury as it had done in the past, the money generated by the tax is instead given to the Secretary of the Interior to distribute to the states. The Secretary determines how much to give to each state based on a formula that takes into account both the area of the state and its number of licensed hunters."
Additionally, grants are provided by the Partners for Fish and Wildlife Program (PFW) to enhance habitat, as well as through the CRP Program.
"CRP is a land conservation program administered by the Farm Service Agency (FSA). In exchange for a yearly rental payment, farmers enrolled in the program agree to remove environmentally sensitive land from agricultural production and plant species that will improve environmental health and quality. Contracts for land enrolled in CRP are from 10 to 15 years in length. The long-term goal of the program is to re-establish valuable land cover to help improve water quality, prevent soil erosion, and reduce loss of wildlife habitat."
These grants are separate from P-R funds and are awarded based on project merit. As Chief of the Endangered Species Recovery and Habitat Conservation Branch for Central Washington, I was one of two supervisors of PFW funds, helped design a ranking system and made recommendations to the State Supervisor for US Fish and Wildlife on making funding decisions. We generally distributed $500,000 to $2,000,000 on a cost-sharing-basis within Washington State.
"The Pittman–Robertson Act took over a preexisting 11% excise tax on firearms and ammunition. Instead of going into the U.S. Treasury as it had done in the past, the money generated by the tax is instead given to the Secretary of the Interior to distribute to the states. The Secretary determines how much to give to each state based on a formula that takes into account both the area of the state and its number of licensed hunters."
Additionally, grants are provided by the Partners for Fish and Wildlife Program (PFW) to enhance habitat, as well as through the CRP Program.
"CRP is a land conservation program administered by the Farm Service Agency (FSA). In exchange for a yearly rental payment, farmers enrolled in the program agree to remove environmentally sensitive land from agricultural production and plant species that will improve environmental health and quality. Contracts for land enrolled in CRP are from 10 to 15 years in length. The long-term goal of the program is to re-establish valuable land cover to help improve water quality, prevent soil erosion, and reduce loss of wildlife habitat."
These grants are separate from P-R funds and are awarded based on project merit. As Chief of the Endangered Species Recovery and Habitat Conservation Branch for Central Washington, I was one of two supervisors of PFW funds, helped design a ranking system and made recommendations to the State Supervisor for US Fish and Wildlife on making funding decisions. We generally distributed $500,000 to $2,000,000 on a cost-sharing-basis within Washington State.
GunnyGene
Hawkeye
With all these various diseases associated with wild game, I'm amazed that we ever managed to survive as a species. After all, the diseases are not new. Way back when, all game was wild game and nobody had latex gloves. 
BearBiologist
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It is all too easy to blame faceless bureaucrats.
Two other programs that I worked with that affected hunting indirectly were the Fish and Wildlife Coordination Act Reports and the Sykes Act.
"The Fish and Wildlife Coordination Act (FWCA) of the United States was enacted March 10, 1934 to protect fish and wildlife when federal actions result in the control or modification of a natural stream or body of water. The Act provides the basic authority for the involvement of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service (Service) in evaluating impacts to fish and wildlife from proposed water resource development projects. "
I authored or co-authored several of these. These projects were paid for by rge agency performing the action, typically Bureau of Reclamation. We addressed impacts to ALL fish and wildlife. Such impacts would be how a new irrigation canal might affect deer or elk winter migration, decreased wetlands, loss of habitat for grouse, impact salmonid runs, etc. We would include/require options in design such as canal overpasses, fish ladders, set asides of grouse habitat (with connection corridors to other habitat).
"The Sikes Act directs the Secretary of Defense, in cooperation with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and state fish and wildlife agencies, to carry out a program for the conservation and rehabilitation of natural resources on military installations. The Sikes Act allows for the sustainable, multipurpose use of natural resources subject to military security and safety requirements."
I worked on one in planning an "Integrated Natural Resource Management Plan" for the Yakima Training Center in eastern Washington. These paid for by reimbursements from Congress (I had to keep track of vehicle use, my time, gasoline bought, etc. AND include the state's expenditures for the same! We used to joke that USFWS and USFS should be combined under a NEW USDA: US Department of ACCOUNTING!! Most of my time was taken up by accounting, etc. NOT biology!). Most bases, in the West at least, have some level of civilian hunting and fishing programs. Working with the base's biologists, we would devise training schedules (rotating sensitive habitat to lessen impacts), use discretionary DOD funds to improve habitats or fence sensitive areas to prevent entry by armored vehicles, etc.
I don't disagree, but I think the heads of these agencies, probably political appointees, have some power to skew the results not only by encouragement/discouragement of employees (to reach pre-determined conclusions), but also by omitting key details when interfacing with the media.
Look for example at how government agencies have omitted Hydatid when handling the wolf issue.
BearBiologist
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Don't know if that is germane. There's canine distemper in javelina, CWD in cervids, feline leukemia in felids, salmonella, tapeworms in many species, trichinosis in bears and wild/domestic hogs, tularemia in rabbits and hares, schistosomiasis in birds and snails, more diseases than I can think of. The introduction of a predator (i dislike the layman's term of "apex predator" since everyone gets eaten by someone else!) would reduce populations. Many diseases are Density Dependent for their spread. Populations may be sustained at too high a level, allowing for transmission of disease.
For example, I followed the annual population reports from a couple of areas in Idaho (I was an elk hunter). He reported over population of elk and recommended increasing the cow hunts. I'm not proud, I'll take a cow for the freezer. Anyway, the State level report came out showing his area was being decimated by wolves and lions! Who knew it better? The biologist out there every day or the politico in the office?
I agree the politicos make the decisions and I saw it more often than not in Federal service. I once spent 5 YEARS writing a report that a certain agency's actions were jeopardizing the existing of a species of salmonid. My supervisor approved, and I got favorable comments from other biologists. It got elevated for signature. It was still sitting on a desk 12 years later!!! Last Saturday, I learned a second analysis had been prepared and shelved and now a THIRD one is being done!! I would tell my staff, that sometimes they would get "rolled" by a policy decision and would, literally, cry themselves to sleep. They would have unimaginable lows.
I stepped down as a Branch Chief after six years because I had too many conflicts with policy decisions, and it took away from the biology. Several of my staff refused promotions because they liked what they did and loved improving the resources! The rank and file Federal and State biologists, as a whole, do what they did because they love their jobs. I could have stayed in real estate, making 6 figures but, instead of returning after the slump of the '90's, because I loved my job! Rant off!!!
