Chief Red Cloud's Katana

[Ugly Hombre]

http://www.truewestmagazine.com/chief-red-cloud/

Amazing story about a Japanese Katana that Chief Red Cloud owned and had on the wall of his cabin

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/12/4e/2c/124e2c46a367bd94ce09bd04420343cf.jpg

Another photo of a Indian with a Katana and a 1875? ivory griped? Remington revolver.

Would like to get more information about this- questions like? Were there more? Were they taught how to use them? How did the Japanese steel get to the American west?

Probably we will never know for sure.

Reminds me of the old Bronson movie "Red Sun"

 

[GunnyGene]

A lot of stuff (furniture, weapons, crockery, etc. ) from the Far East was traded into the US back then. Trans Pacific trade was big business in the late 1700's and 1800's. No telling how many hands those swords passed thru before Red Cloud got one. That particular sword could be easily traced to the original owner and swordsmith it came from. They were always marked on the tang.

I have a pair of hand carved Chinese doors that were imported back before the Civil war, that I bought from an antique dealer in MS, who got them from an estate in New York.

 

[Ugly Hombre]

True Gunny- good point, that would be very interesting- read the Kanji on the handle see who forged it and when.

Prior to WWII they were all hand forged- the mass issued ones in WWII were made out of stamped mass produced steel, I believe.

Wonder if Red Cloud's Katana still exists, and could be found.

The second photo is interesting- looks like the man holding it- may know how to use it. He may have been a Indian Policeman of some type? and carried it on his "beat".

Used to think the movie "Red Sun" was totally improbable now not so sure.

Those doors are quite nice.

 

[Ruger1441]

If I remember correctly the very early swords were not marked. Seems that the sword makers thought that if you didn't know who made it by looking at it the you didn't need to know.
Did a bunch of research on a sword found in a cave in arizonia about 1971. Sword was not marked but by tracing the heat treat pattern it looked like it was made around 1100. Sword was also found with a wicked looking spear head. Both the spear and sword were wrapped in rawhide that fell to dust when the sword and spear point were picked up.

 

[GunnyGene]

True Gunny- good point, that would be very interesting- read the Kanji on the handle see who forged it and when.

Prior to WWII they were all hand forged- the mass issued ones in WWII were made out of stamped mass produced steel, I believe.

Actually, machine made 'gunto' (military swords) began in the late 1700's thru the early 1800's. The one I have, judging by the sword and scabbard, most closely resembles that early design. You can see the resemblance to the one pictured below. The scabbard of mine is identical to the one pictured at the link below. There are also more subtle indications of approx era.

Some good info on these and later gunto here: http://www.antique-swords.eu/D92-Japanese-Shinto-Era-Unsigned-Wakizashi.html

Notice that the WWII gunto from around 1900 or so, all had fullers, and various rings and ornamentation not found on the earlier gunto.

 

[Ugly Hombre]

"Did a bunch of research on a sword found in a cave in arizonia about 1971."

Japanese? that is amazing.! "The Apache Kid's Katana."

Great info thanks gents!

Gunny I have a mass produced WWII Katana that my dad brought back in 45' he spoke of being lined up with his unit in occupied Japan and marched by a mountain of blades and being told to "Pick One."

Most of the Gi's picked the newer ones ha ha!

 

[caryc]

In the second photo it kind of looks like the guy is wearing his wife's hat.

She is giving him a rather nasty look. And, the horse has got his ears back like "Oh well, whatya gonna do"?

 

[toysoldier]

Prior to WWII they were all hand forged- the mass issued ones in WWII were made out of stamped mass produced steel, I believe.

Not exactly. Manchurian-made "Koa Isshin" blades were probably the finest mass-produced swords ever issued to troops. On the link below, scroll down to the comments to read about their production.

http://ryujinswords.com/koaisshin.htm

I picked up one of these at a local flea market, in rather poor condition. My Japanese daughter-in-law translated the glyphs on the tang. It's a Koa Isshin blade, made in 1943. It appeared to have rusted into its scabbard, and the two were then hammered apart. Five inches of the tip were badly pitted. I shortened the blade to 21", reshaped the tip, polished and sharpened it, and fashioned handle, guard, and sheath. It is now one really big straight razor. :twisted: