I got a lot of lead solder 60/40 Lead/tin, actually 63/37. How much plumbing lead would I need to add for cast bullets for 40S&W to get a little less hard bullet. I am new to casting and don't have a hardness tester. Thanks
casting lead ratio?
- Thread starter XP100
- Start date
Rick Courtright
Hawkeye
Hi,
Suggest finding a copy of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook (sometimes available at MidwayUSA, probably others, too) for some in depth discussion of all this as you're getting started. Melting lead and pouring it in the mold is the easy part: there's a lot of background info in that book you may find interesting and helpful.
Tin's main function in the allow is to improve the "castability" of the lead, in other words, help it fill out the mold better. Between 1% and 2% tin, by weight, is about all you'll need. You'll read of older alloys from when tin wasn't so pricey that use a lot more of it, like Ol' Elmer's favorite 16:1, 16 parts lead, 1 part tin (1 oz tin per pound of lead), which works out just short of 6% tin. But in reality, once you go over about 2%, you gain little or nothing. A scale and your calculator will probably get a good workout getting things where you want them.
Antimony is the metal to add for hardness. About 6% is the max you'll find in conventional commercial alloys. One popular one is sold as "hardball" and similar names. Expect 92% lead, 6% antimony and 2% tin to be typical in such an alloy.
You can also vary the hardness some thru heat treating the bullets, also air or water cooling them from the mold. An air cooled, non-heat treated bullet will be softest w/ a given alloy. A water cooled, non-heated treated one will work for a wide variety of uses, while a heat-treated one may be necessary for the hotter loads.
Good luck!
Rick C
Suggest finding a copy of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook (sometimes available at MidwayUSA, probably others, too) for some in depth discussion of all this as you're getting started. Melting lead and pouring it in the mold is the easy part: there's a lot of background info in that book you may find interesting and helpful.
Tin's main function in the allow is to improve the "castability" of the lead, in other words, help it fill out the mold better. Between 1% and 2% tin, by weight, is about all you'll need. You'll read of older alloys from when tin wasn't so pricey that use a lot more of it, like Ol' Elmer's favorite 16:1, 16 parts lead, 1 part tin (1 oz tin per pound of lead), which works out just short of 6% tin. But in reality, once you go over about 2%, you gain little or nothing. A scale and your calculator will probably get a good workout getting things where you want them.
Antimony is the metal to add for hardness. About 6% is the max you'll find in conventional commercial alloys. One popular one is sold as "hardball" and similar names. Expect 92% lead, 6% antimony and 2% tin to be typical in such an alloy.
You can also vary the hardness some thru heat treating the bullets, also air or water cooling them from the mold. An air cooled, non-heat treated bullet will be softest w/ a given alloy. A water cooled, non-heated treated one will work for a wide variety of uses, while a heat-treated one may be necessary for the hotter loads.
Good luck!
Rick C
Iron Mike Golf
Blackhawk
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2010
- Messages
- 945
XP100, 60/40 solder is normally added to an alloy to increase tin content. If you want to shoot a lead-tin binary alloy, you might want to start with a 20:1 ratio of tin to lead (that's 4.76% tin).
Using pure lead and your solder, you can mix 10 lbs of pure lead and 23.5 oz of the solder and get that ratio.
Using pure lead and your solder, you can mix 10 lbs of pure lead and 23.5 oz of the solder and get that ratio.
k2nd
Single-Sixer
XP100, you should check out www.castboolits.gunloads.com lots of great info as well as helpful, knowledgeable folks.
k2nd
k2nd
DeletedMember275
Hunter
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2002
- Messages
- 2,759
You could easily trade a portion of your solder for either wheel weight ingots or pure lead.
anachronism
Single-Sixer
Tin won't harden pure lead to an appreciable degree unless you use a lot of it. The commonly recommended 2-3% tin will still give almost dead-soft bullets. 1-20 is about 9-10 on the brinnell scale.
People are swapping metal around on castboolits.com. You have done well.
gramps
gramps
It was all melted into about 4" pie tins or small Lyman ingots. The only thing I ever cast was Lyman slugs with pure lead.
I will look for more lead and probably look for a hardness tester.
Thanks for all the input so far.
I will look for more lead and probably look for a hardness tester.
Thanks for all the input so far.
GP100man
Buckeye
see stiky #3
Ifin ya wanna trade some pm me.
Ifin ya wanna trade some pm me.
Just some general thoughts on tin and lead alloy for hand gun bullets
I've used wheel weight for many years, straight with no other component added. They gave me 1000 fps loads in any hand gun without leading so long as the bullet fit the goove dia. of the barrel in auto's, and/or the cylinder throats of revolvers. In actuality, bullets need to be .001" larger than groove dia. or throat size. I added finger tip sized chunks of tin only when I couldn't get a fully heated mold to throw fully filled out bullets. This usually solved the problem, and the tin in my supply lasted almost indefinitely.
As wheel weights became harder to find, I've taken to diluting it with stick on pure lead weight, up to 50% with good, no leading results. 1000 fps is no problem for softer bullets like this.
For harder bullets, pushed beyond 1000 fps, I water quench my bullets, dropping them directly into a 5 gallon diaper pail. This significantly hardens them, and I've used them up to 1600 fps, with a gas check and though a Marlin .44 Magnum, micro-groove, Model 336.
Currently, my local tire shop, where I buy ALL MY TIRES, saves all their wheel weights for me, and I buy them for $20 per 100 lbs. From that I get about 70 lbs of usable lead alloy weights. As you know, lead alloy weights are going away...legislated out of existance...so get what you can NOW. At $20 per 100 lbs, my .44's cost me less than 1/3 cent apiece if you discount the cost of my casting equipment. As an example, I just cast 1000 .357 158 gr LSWC's which paid for the cost of a new Lyman mold.
Hope this all helps...save the tin or trade some of it off for a lot of wheel weights...a lb. of tin for 50 lbs. of WW's is about what I'd do.
I've used wheel weight for many years, straight with no other component added. They gave me 1000 fps loads in any hand gun without leading so long as the bullet fit the goove dia. of the barrel in auto's, and/or the cylinder throats of revolvers. In actuality, bullets need to be .001" larger than groove dia. or throat size. I added finger tip sized chunks of tin only when I couldn't get a fully heated mold to throw fully filled out bullets. This usually solved the problem, and the tin in my supply lasted almost indefinitely.
As wheel weights became harder to find, I've taken to diluting it with stick on pure lead weight, up to 50% with good, no leading results. 1000 fps is no problem for softer bullets like this.
For harder bullets, pushed beyond 1000 fps, I water quench my bullets, dropping them directly into a 5 gallon diaper pail. This significantly hardens them, and I've used them up to 1600 fps, with a gas check and though a Marlin .44 Magnum, micro-groove, Model 336.
Currently, my local tire shop, where I buy ALL MY TIRES, saves all their wheel weights for me, and I buy them for $20 per 100 lbs. From that I get about 70 lbs of usable lead alloy weights. As you know, lead alloy weights are going away...legislated out of existance...so get what you can NOW. At $20 per 100 lbs, my .44's cost me less than 1/3 cent apiece if you discount the cost of my casting equipment. As an example, I just cast 1000 .357 158 gr LSWC's which paid for the cost of a new Lyman mold.
Hope this all helps...save the tin or trade some of it off for a lot of wheel weights...a lb. of tin for 50 lbs. of WW's is about what I'd do.
Paul B
Hunter
"But in reality, once you go over about 2%, you gain little or nothing."
Not necessarily so. In theory, especially in the past an alloy of 1 in 10 tin to lead was considered a hard alloy. Elmer's 16 to 1 has been mentioned and it worked quite well. I've used it in the .38/44 cartridge, .357 Mag, .44 Spl and Mag.
As some here know I teach a Hunter Ed class and got to talking with one of the student's father. We got into reloading and cast bullets and he said be cause of all the controversy about the hazards of lead, she wanted it out of the house, like yesterday.. I asked him what he wanted for it and he said to just come and take it away tonight after class. I did. 100 plus pounds of pure sheet lead, 200 pounds of raw wheel weights and another almost 150 pounds of "cleaned" wheel weights. Turned out the "cleaned" weights wee a mix of regular weights and the stick on kind and based on the BHN number (8) it was mostly stick on. Only found that out after a long casting session of Lyman #358156 GC bullets. A friend of mine needed some .357 Mag. ammo made up so after warning him that the bullets were on the soft side and might lead his bore I loaded up his box of ammo. He went out shooting the next day and called me up the next night and said they were the most accurate loads he's ever shot. :shock: I asked about leading and he said, "None at all." :shock: :shock: :shock: I've since loaded some up for me and he was right. the load was accurate and no traces of lead in the barrel and this from a BHL of 8. :shock: Now this was a top load, 14.0 gr. of #2400 in Winchester brass and primer. Velocity is about 1250 FPS from my 6" revolver and my friend's gun has a 6.5" barrel. About all I can think of is the bullet sizing and lube job must have been absolutely perfect for this to happen in two separate firearms. Methinks I'll leave this one alone.
Paul B.
Not necessarily so. In theory, especially in the past an alloy of 1 in 10 tin to lead was considered a hard alloy. Elmer's 16 to 1 has been mentioned and it worked quite well. I've used it in the .38/44 cartridge, .357 Mag, .44 Spl and Mag.
As some here know I teach a Hunter Ed class and got to talking with one of the student's father. We got into reloading and cast bullets and he said be cause of all the controversy about the hazards of lead, she wanted it out of the house, like yesterday.. I asked him what he wanted for it and he said to just come and take it away tonight after class. I did. 100 plus pounds of pure sheet lead, 200 pounds of raw wheel weights and another almost 150 pounds of "cleaned" wheel weights. Turned out the "cleaned" weights wee a mix of regular weights and the stick on kind and based on the BHN number (8) it was mostly stick on. Only found that out after a long casting session of Lyman #358156 GC bullets. A friend of mine needed some .357 Mag. ammo made up so after warning him that the bullets were on the soft side and might lead his bore I loaded up his box of ammo. He went out shooting the next day and called me up the next night and said they were the most accurate loads he's ever shot. :shock: I asked about leading and he said, "None at all." :shock: :shock: :shock: I've since loaded some up for me and he was right. the load was accurate and no traces of lead in the barrel and this from a BHL of 8. :shock: Now this was a top load, 14.0 gr. of #2400 in Winchester brass and primer. Velocity is about 1250 FPS from my 6" revolver and my friend's gun has a 6.5" barrel. About all I can think of is the bullet sizing and lube job must have been absolutely perfect for this to happen in two separate firearms. Methinks I'll leave this one alone.
Paul B.
been to castboolits and reading and looking at info on the sticky here also. I found a fellow shooter that has 3 to 400 lbs. of lead left over from his pistol shooting days. Price is good so I am going to get it. I think I will invest in a hardness tester.
Thanks for all the input so far.
Thanks for all the input so far.
Blammer308
Bearcat
short version, you want hard bullets use antimony 2% should be sufficient and then water drop.
You want "TOUGH" bullets that will expand and 'stick together' then add tin.
HARD antimony bullets may shatter upon impact.
TOUGH tin bullets will deform and punch through upon impact.
this is a down and dirty version of info.
You want "TOUGH" bullets that will expand and 'stick together' then add tin.
HARD antimony bullets may shatter upon impact.
TOUGH tin bullets will deform and punch through upon impact.
this is a down and dirty version of info.
