Can you release slide on empty chamber?
- Thread starter hpman66
- Start date
Help Support Ruger Forum:
I agree with 1911 tuner, and we too, having spent 3 summers at Camp Perry back in the mid 70's working on 'commercial row, and spending time , and meals with Many of the armorers from about every branch of the military, you do NOT "drop the slide" (slam fire) any target 1911 ,you can and will 'break " something", maybe chip the hammer notch or the sear tip , whatever, so I say NO, unless you can hold the hammer "back" while doing it.....the shell entering the chamber dampens the "slam"............its YOUR guns, YOU do what ever YOU want to do, they eventually come in the shop and my replacement will have to repair it for you or send it back to manufacturer, and you can complain here, about how shoddy something is..... :roll: 8) :wink:
I think he's referring to hammer follow to half cock from the trigger bumping the disconnect as the slide slams to battery. That can also be prevented by simply pulling the trigger and holding it when the slide is released. Not a good habit to get into unless all your shooting is deliberate, slow-fire. In fast action, there's too much opportunity to get it out of sequence.
But sear damage from inertial trigger bump isn't the main concern. It's the lower lug feet that catch hell when there's no cartridge to bleed off the slide's momentum.
by "holding the hammer back" refers to taking any and all the contact of the hammer 'notch' off the sear tip, when dropping (slam FIRE) the slide on an 'empty' gun, this being 'target' ( bullseye) guns, not combat,ball ammo guns. The sharp edge and limited contact in the hammer/sear area can "chip" ,break off...must remember ,back then these guns still had to pick up a 3 1/2 pound weight to be considered "safe" to fire...also then some time later, the advent of the shock buffs ( washer idea from Wilson)) also buffered the "metal to metal " slamming going on..I recall some old timers put in a rounded, thin piece of leather on the recoil spring guide...hey it worked,,,but all of that stuff is for 'target' guns, not "defense or duty guns, no need for small parts and pieces breaking off and jamming up the works in any 'dire' situation........
and again as tuner noted, it is the influence of a shell being fed that "bleeds off the slides momentum..."
thus dampens the effect/affect.
and again as tuner noted, it is the influence of a shell being fed that "bleeds off the slides momentum..."
thus dampens the effect/affect.
I'm with Rev on what he is thinking.
If I was to release the slide of an empty 1911from it's "locked back" position so's that it would "slam forward" into battery, I dern-sure wouldn't be pressing the trigger at the same time. And do notice the "If" used at the start of my previous sentance....you can read that as meaning that it is not something that I'd do in the first place.
But hey guys.....your gun aint my gun. Feel free to abuse yours in any manner you want.
DGW
If I was to release the slide of an empty 1911from it's "locked back" position so's that it would "slam forward" into battery, I dern-sure wouldn't be pressing the trigger at the same time. And do notice the "If" used at the start of my previous sentance....you can read that as meaning that it is not something that I'd do in the first place.
But hey guys.....your gun aint my gun. Feel free to abuse yours in any manner you want.
DGW
Why? Mechanically, that's exactly what happens when you fire the gun. It just happens faster. The only functional difference is that the disconnect is in the connected position...but when the slide runs over it...it still cams it down into the disconnected position, and you still have to release the trigger after it's in battery to allow it to reset to the connected position before you can fire it.
whoa, scary thoughts there, I'd keep my fingers off ANY trigger at that point...its one thing to "hold back" ( keep pressure off) of the hammer at this time, its awkward in fact, till you get to know and see why......
and again, this is basically on lightened trigger pull , target guns...you guys do what YOU want with your guns. :roll:
and again, this is basically on lightened trigger pull , target guns...you guys do what YOU want with your guns. :roll:
It's only scary if you don't understand how the trigger/fire control group functions, and it only becomes dangerous if you get in a hurry...like executing a speed reload in an action-type match and you get it out of sequence...and Insert magazine/Pull trigger/Release slide becomes Insert magazine/Release slide/Pull trigger...before the gun is pointed downrange and under full control.
Again...when the gun is operating normally...the trigger is held to the rear when the slide goes to battery, no? Then, why would it be any more risky when releasing the slide to chamber a round? As long as we keep the gun pointed in the right direction, the risks are minimal. But, we always keep the gun pointed in the right direction because a malfunction is always possible. It's like a salty old Master Gunny once told us on the firing line: "Expect your weapon to malfunction."
But, it's a moot point, anyway.
Historically, the practice of holding the trigger to the rear while releasing the slide is/was only done during slow-fire Bullseye competition, and almost nobody does it any more because of the availability of lightweight/low mass triggers. When all the armorers had to work with was heavy steel triggers, inertial disconnect bump was a genuine concern, and NOT holding the trigger could and often did result in ruined trigger jobs.
YES, that salty old Gunny was exactly right.."expect your weapon to malfunction...." OK oK, no need to get technical, we have seen the results of and got to attend court court ( not us, but other gunsmiths) over just such incidents, as well as having seen them discharge, simply taking the safety off, after trying to "pull the trigger" when the safety is engaged........ :shock:
......so class, AGAIN, you do what YOU want to do, but please keep your fingers OFF any trigger till your are certain of your target..........the end :wink:
......so class, AGAIN, you do what YOU want to do, but please keep your fingers OFF any trigger till your are certain of your target..........the end :wink:
Oh! Okay. I thought maybe understanding how the gun functions would be a good thing. Mea culpa.
And again...the trigger is pulled while the slide runs to battery during normal firing. Why would it behave any differently just because the slide has been manually released from the locked position? If it would fire by doing that, it would empty the magazine when the trigger was pulled...
...because it does exactly the same thing.
To wit:
The slide cams the disconnect down into the frame while the hammer is held off the sear, and the trigger can no longer affect the sear...and the sear can't release the hammer because the slide is holding it off the sear. Then the sear resets and grabs the hammer hooks when the slide moves forward far enough to release the hammer back to the sear.
John Browning wasn't an idiot.
Just for the record, I don't hold the trigger while I release the slide because there's no need to any more...but it was once standard practice among Bullseye competitors. They all did it because the armorers that built their pistols told them to do it.
I haven't been involved in the discipline for many years, so I don't know whether any of them still does it or not...but I'd bet that at least some of them do.
sousana
Single-Sixer
I've been shooting, competing, ccw, and gone into harms way with the 1911 platform, I've been trained for 45 years never to drop the slide on an empty chamber. The one time I did, I had just reported to the 2nd MarDiv as a navy corpsman back in 1983, my gunnys first act was to qualify me at the range for both the 1911 & the AR. I remember that when I obtained my weapons card at the armory and traded it for my issue 1911 it came to me with slide locked back and two mags by hand. I must of banged my arm or something because the slide slammed forward.
Like the world was ending, the gunny looked at me and told me id just used up my one and only pass. I then had to break the pistol down to its base parts, mix them with his parts and rebuild both. Afterwords he told me that on the 1911, and Bhp, you can damage the weapon dropping the slide on an empty chamber.
In 45 years with the 1911, once in 1983 I dropped the slide. Now, do I know for sure if it will? The gunny, in 1983, had 20 years in the Corps, with multiple combat tours, and I for one won't argue with that. He could have told me one day they'd have females on subs and I would have believed him.
And he would have been right lol.
Like the world was ending, the gunny looked at me and told me id just used up my one and only pass. I then had to break the pistol down to its base parts, mix them with his parts and rebuild both. Afterwords he told me that on the 1911, and Bhp, you can damage the weapon dropping the slide on an empty chamber.
In 45 years with the 1911, once in 1983 I dropped the slide. Now, do I know for sure if it will? The gunny, in 1983, had 20 years in the Corps, with multiple combat tours, and I for one won't argue with that. He could have told me one day they'd have females on subs and I would have believed him.
And he would have been right lol.
It's really bad to drop the slide after first slipping a round into the chamber. That might break the extractor.
I don't really have a problem with dropping the slide on an empty chamber. If it could hurt the steel pistol, why doesn't it hurt the little brass cartridge? Why does a little brass cartridge keep the steel pistol from being damaged?
???
I don't really have a problem with dropping the slide on an empty chamber. If it could hurt the steel pistol, why doesn't it hurt the little brass cartridge? Why does a little brass cartridge keep the steel pistol from being damaged?
???
eveled
Hawkeye
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2012
- Messages
- 5,610
I can't believe this thread is still going on. You can do it if you want to on your gun. You cannot do it on my gun. There is not need to do it, and there is a possibility you are doing damage if you do it. So why would you?
My son threw a ball at our picture window and it bounced off. No damage done. I told him not to do it again. He said why it didn't hurt the window. I said it is not a good idea to throw things at a window, just because it didn't break that time doesn't mean it won't break the next time. He said but it didn't hurt it, I said just because you can't see any damage doesn't mean it didn't get damaged at all, besides it is not a good idea to throw anything at a window.
Throwing something at a window and dropping the slide on an empty chamber are both bad ideas whether you see damage or not. Ed.
My son threw a ball at our picture window and it bounced off. No damage done. I told him not to do it again. He said why it didn't hurt the window. I said it is not a good idea to throw things at a window, just because it didn't break that time doesn't mean it won't break the next time. He said but it didn't hurt it, I said just because you can't see any damage doesn't mean it didn't get damaged at all, besides it is not a good idea to throw anything at a window.
Throwing something at a window and dropping the slide on an empty chamber are both bad ideas whether you see damage or not. Ed.
For whatever it's worth, I'm with him 100% on everything he said.MacEntyre said:
There is no difference except for the small amount of energy required to chamber the round, and the exact same areas touch each other whether a round is in the chamber or not.
Windows are not made to withstand baseballs, but all parts the of 1911's are made to work together.
John M Browing was a mechanical genius.
Because the little brass cartridge actually indexes off the front of the chamber spreading the load out to the entire base of the cartridge. Without a cartridge in the chamber the only contact area the slide has is the small section of hood it contacts.MacEntyre said:
Well, except of course for guns where the base of the barrel has been relieved so it makes no contact with the breech face at all, which was once they way many (most? all?) of the top 1911 accuracy smiths did it. (I have no idea if they're still doing that or not.)y2k-fxst said:
