Blackhawk's replacement

[caryc]

This is the newest helicopter that is supposed to replace the Blackhawk. It's looks like the Osprey and reported to be 100 mph faster than the Blackhawk. I'll never forget the time a few months ago that I had an Osprey fly over my property. It was extremely low and the pilot had his engines in the vertical position which I could not understand because my property is in a very mountainous area. I don't know why he would be flying like that in helicopter mode. But that thing as low as it was flying was extremely awesome.

It seems like I've heard some bad things about the Osprey but, I guess they have improved the rotating engine thing since they've come out with a new version of it.

 

[contender]

Interesting.

 

[gunzo]

Dang it man!!! Say Blackhawk Helicopter replacement or something like that!

This place consisting of folks that live Blackhawks, Ruger that is, could get excited or scared or something.

I did.

 

[Bob Wright]

Dang it man!!! Say Blackhawk Helicopter replacement or something like that!

This place consisting of folks that live Blackhawks, Ruger that is, could get excited or scared or something.

I did.

Yep, I was expecting to see a new Single Action from Ruger!

Bob Wright

 

[Fox Mike]

I was at Fort Rucker the day that the Blackhawk was officially inducted into the Army inventory. Long time ago. A saying among those of us the were in the UH-1 era was that when they retired the Blackhawk the crew would be picked up and transported home in an H model.

 

[caryc]

Here is a Youtube movie clip of it. It sure doesn't look like it's capable of flying on one engine does it?

 

[RSIno1]

I heard the Osprey engine rotation/crash problems were they needed 8,000+ PSI to work in the time prescribed but the hoses and fittings were only rated to 5,000 PSI.

 

[contender]

"I was at Fort Rucker the day that the Blackhawk was officially inducted into the Army inventory. Long time ago. A saying among those of us the were in the UH-1 era was that when they retired the Blackhawk the crew would be picked up and transported home in an H model."

I was in Rucker in 1977,, and the Blackhawk was still in testing phases. But I too recall the same sort of saying.

 

[Jeepnik]

I was at Fort Rucker the day that the Blackhawk was officially inducted into the Army inventory. Long time ago. A saying among those of us the were in the UH-1 era was that when they retired the Blackhawk the crew would be picked up and transported home in an H model.

1976 or there abouts I was stationed at Eglin AFB. They were testing two types of helos. They were running competing models against one another in the climatic hanger. One became the Apache the other the Blackhawk. Compared to the Cobra and Huey they were designed to replace they were light years ahead.

That was 46 years ago. Both the Cobra and the Huey are still flying after many years and many upgrades. I guess it’s time for the next generation to replace the Cobra and the Huey while the Apache and the Blackhawk fly on until yet another generation of aircraft replace them.

 

[WAYNO]

I was also in Army aviation. We had Hueys, Cobras, and OH-58's in our unit.

Anyway... On two different occasions in the early to mid seventies, we attended seminars attempting to introduce us to the replacements of our beloved Hueys and Cobras.

First, it was the Cheyenne, kind've a cross between an aerobatic airplane and helicopter, with lots of weapons. We thought it was all new, but history books have taught me it was not new at all, and had been on the drawing boards since roughly 1965. It was actually the Cobra that beat out the Cheyenne. The Cheyenne was never to be, so the Cobra was the hurry up and get it done model to fill the mission they had planned for the Cheyenne.

Next, it was the UTTAS project, (Utility Tactical Transport Aircraft System) which much later became the Blackhawk. We were not impressed. But the Blackhawk ultimately replaced the Huey.

My thoughts... The new tiltrotor is way too much bird to replace a UTTAS bird in many missions. In the Air Cavalry, we dumped a lot of birds into a small A.O., and changed our forward A.O. nearly daily, including the maintenance and arming of these birds. Seems the tiltrotor(s) could be effective at inserting a squad or even platoon into a LZ, but for the business of moving an entire Troop (company) size unit or even a Squadron (battalion) size unit, the tiltrotor doesn't fit.

The top brass knows more than I do, but I could better understand the tiltrotor in addition to Blackhawks, but not as a complete replacement.




.

 

[Hvymax]

The Osprey introduction went so well!!! It took them 30+ years to get them semi safe maybe.

 

[Fox Mike]

The Osprey introduction went so well!!! It took them 30+ years to get them semi safe maybe.

I put a book up for KARMA some time ago that told the entire Osprey story. It never showed up again. It was a great story.

 

[Hvymax]

I put a book up for KARMA some time ago that told the entire Osprey story. It never showed up again. It was a great story.

I knew a guy that works at Pax River that made a career on it.

 

[Johnny-Baseball]

A year or so ago my son - an Army CWO Blackhawk maintenance test pilot - was tasked with visiting both the Sikorsky and Bell locations to learn about each aircraft, its capabilities and maintenance profile, then asked to give a "pilot's/maintainer's) assessment. He liked both aircraft but was a bit leery of the Bell competitor's possible "maintenance-heavy" rotating-wing design. His concern springs from the rumors he hears that the Osprey's design renders it very maintenance-intensive and, thus, not a reliable aircraft for may military needs.

He told me the Army's plan was to purchase the Bell primarily as a Spec Ops (and similar mission) aircraft and upgrade the Blackhawk fleet to last another 20-or-more years of service.

He also says the Blackhawk is in the initial phase of a comprehensive software retrofit - when finished, virtually all Blackhawks will have modular software that can be updated to accommodate upgraded avionics, etc. The current Blackhawks cannot be updated by Army personnel - the military contractors alone are allowed to do those upgrades (which are both expensive and time consuming). In the meantime, Blackhawk pilots are certified to fly either the Alpha/Lima model (the initially launched version - think manual transmission) or the Mike model (think automatic transmission) but not both. After the retrofitting is completed, every Blackhawk pilot would be able to fly every Blackhawks in inventory - a dramatic improvement in pilot and maintenance crew utilization.

 

[weaselmeatgravy]

I retired last year after 40 years in aerospace doing software development and easily 10-12 years of that was working on the V-22 (Osprey) fuel system over 3 generations of updated/new hardware and new capabilities. I got to see the first V-22 built take its 3rd "flight" ever, and the first time they tilted the rotors in flight back in the 1980s. We were lined up behind a fence watching the action about 30 yards away. They were only cleared for 5 degrees of rotation and probably didn't get higher than 50 feet, but it was fun (and loud). That was at Bell's old Ft. Worth facility. Over the years I got to see much more impressive flights at their Amarillo plant including being invited up to the tower once when the Marines were taking delivery of a new bird and the last time we saw that one was after it circled back and buzzed the tower left to right in full airplane mode, right prop tips less than 100 feet from my face. That was awesome.

Just a few days ago, my old boss left the company and invited a bunch of her old cronies out for drinks. There was a lot of chatter about the company winning the fuel system contract on this new V-280 craft and hints that I might be getting a call to come back as a contractor for that. Not sure I want a job again, especially as woke as the company got over the last five years, but I suspect the work would be fun.

 

[Hvymax]

The problem is the military keeps throwing Billions at trying to make a flying swiss army knife. A handful of simpler, stronger and easier to maintain platforms would save Trillions and have better mission capability.

 

[Hvymax]

Yeah Woketopia was a big part of my decision to retire last year. I was run off a project a few years ago for mistaking a female engineer for a safety person. She brought our Hot work permit every morning so I assumed she must be safety. We didn't have these problems before they let Dingbats on projects. You didn't have to worry about feelings and if disagreements didn't escalate to hammers and 2x4's nobody really cared. I dangled a guy off the 6th floor and nobody said anything because I pulled him back in!!!

 

[Johnny-Baseball]

My son is retiring from the Army next year. I've told him that with his maintenance-test-flight/maintenance evaluator background, he'd be a great fit as a Bell employee - helping Bell develop the maintenance routines/training, then teach the Army how to care for this new aircraft (train the trainers).

He is presently at Fort Hood and would like to move to DFW (near me) after retirement (wants to be a commercial airline pilot). His concern with Bell would be having to live in Amarillo. (He's not naive about West Texas living, having attended Texas Tech - Lubbock - for three years before going in the army.) Me? I'd move to Amarillo in a heartbeat. The further from big city life, the better.

 

[caryc]

I forgot to add that when that Osprey flew over my property, it's sound (extremely loud) was as impressive as it's looks.

 

[gunzo]

A Lockheed-Martin repair & retrofit facility about 30 miles from my house & I'm sometimes in the test flight path.
Have heard/seen many types of choppers over my house, but when the Ospreys came near you dang sure new it. Guess they were performing wing tilts & such & they can make some serious noise, I agree.

 

[Johnny-Baseball]

Not particularly stealthy. When they fly their pax to the LZ, it's a megaphoned announcement, "The Marines are landing."

 

[wws]

I worked at Sikorsky Aircraft in Stratford CT for 37 years as a design engineer. I started there when the Blackhawk build was in the single digits. Retired in 2014.
For me is sad to see it end.

 

[Johnny-Baseball]

I worked at Sikorsky Aircraft in Stratford CT for 37 years as a design engineer. I started there when the Blackhawk build was in the single digits. Retired in 2014.
For me is sad to see it end.

It's not ending. The Blackhawk airframe is projected to be in military service for at least another 20 years. Sikorsky has defense contracts to rebuild/refurbish the oldest (Alpha/Lima) Blackhawks, an activity that will no doubt continue for many years.

 

[Bob Wright]

I forgot to add that when that Osprey flew over my property, it's sound (extremely loud) was as impressive as it's looks.

Yep, agree with that! Had one fly over the River Front in downtown Memphis some time back. Most notable sound!

Bob Wright

 

[Bob Wright]

As to the modern Army Aviation, I was in the Infantry, but were often toted by the H-19 and the H-21. We were told the H-21 had an automotive type clutch and the pilot could disengage the engine drive from the rotors and "coast" (glide) without engine power.

Bob Wright

 

[Hvymax]

Yep, agree with that! Had one fly over the River Front in downtown Memphis some time back. Most notable sound!

Bob Wright

I routinely see/hear them running up and down the Patomac.

 

[weaselmeatgravy]

I never got to fly in a V-22 but I did get to sit in one with the engines running. Someone said years back that it was 92dB cockpit noise just sitting on the ground, and around 100dB at takeoff power. I'm sure it is louder in full airplane mode. It has to take off vertically like a helicopter or at minimum do a short take off with the rotors at about 45 degrees because the props are too long to takeoff and land like an airplane - they would hit the ground. And because the engines are pointed skyward, they use concrete on the pads because the exhaust would melt tarmac. On Google maps, you can find Osprey bases and see the scorched concrete where they startup. I don't know if the satellite image has been updated by now, but there used to be a great pic of that at Kirtland AFB in NM.

 

[Hvymax]

I never got to fly in a V-22 but I did get to sit in one with the engines running. Someone said years back that it was 92dB cockpit noise just sitting on the ground, and around 100dB at takeoff power. I'm sure it is louder in full airplane mode. It has to take off vertically like a helicopter or at minimum do a short take off with the rotors at about 45 degrees because the props are too long to takeoff and land like an airplane - they would hit the ground. And because the engines are pointed skyward, they use concrete on the pads because the exhaust would melt tarmac. On Google maps, you can find Osprey bases and see the scorched concrete where they startup. I don't know if the satellite image has been updated by now, but there used to be a great pic of that at Kirtland AFB in NM.

Almost everything about them was a problem that needed accommodations. I knew a guy who made a career trying to get them functional.

 

[weaselmeatgravy]

I remember some sad Marines coming to our facility with a bag full of charred circuit boards and chips after that crash that killed 19 of their friends, hoping that we could read some data to figure out what was going on just prior. I forget exactly how that played out because I wasn't involved with the effort, but I don't think we were able to get any info from the NOVRAM. The mechanical design of the shafts, couplers, and gearboxes in the wing is very complex to not only allow it to fly with one engine out by transferring power from the good engine to the opposite side's rotor, but the entire wing rotates 90 degrees to fold up parallel to the fuselage to minimize parking space on ships. And the props fold up as well so all three point the same direction for storage. I primarily worked the fuel system but another piece of V-22 avionics my old company built was a unit that provided emergency lubrication to all those critical gearboxes, and I think that unit was what the bag of chips was from.

 

[dannyd]

I worked at Sikorsky Aircraft in Stratford CT for 37 years as a design engineer. I started there when the Blackhawk build was in the single digits. Retired in 2014.
For me is sad to see it end.

I was trained on the wooden SH-60B model at the plant 43 years ago.