Black talon ammo?

[patrickjames]

I just bought some loose 44 mag ammo and there is about 20 rounds of winchester ammo that looks like black talon.Did winchester make the black talon ammo in 44 mag? thanks

 

[Sgt Garcia]

Yes.

Dennis.

 

[Sgt Garcia]

 

[Rainman]

Question:
The new Winchester PDX-1 ammo appears to be exactly like Black Talon only copper without the black coating. I have both in 45 ACP and they seem to be the same.

Any ideas?

Dan

 

[RUT]

Ah, the infamous Black Talon.... capable of shooting down high flying aircraft, and maybe even satelites!! :wink:

 

[badchris]

Ah, the infamous Black Talon.... capable of shooting down high flying aircraft, and maybe even satelites!! :wink:

:shock: :shock:
Yeah, that stuff will kill you for just looking at it the wrong way...

I do beleive that the PDX bullet is the same as the Black Talon, but without the "scary name and evil black color". :roll:
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Bucks Owin]

Ah, the infamous Black Talon.... capable of shooting down high flying aircraft, and maybe even satelites!! :wink:

:shock: :shock:
Yeah, that stuff will kill you for just looking at it the wrong way...

I do beleive that the PDX bullet is the same as the Black Talon, but without the "scary name and evil black color". :roll:
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah, I think you're right. I reckon that without the evil black coat, the Libtards figure that ammo won't jump out of the box and go "cop killing".... :roll: I still have some .357 BT and so far it has behaved itself! :lol:

 

[COR]

OH THE HORROR!!!!

As soon as I see a bullet that kills cops all by itself I will agree with banning it. Hell the bullets could just take over like the machines do in the Terminator movies!

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Speaking of movies, wasn't this the basis of the "cop killer bullets" in one of the Lethal Weapon movies? 9mms shooting through bulldozer blades, etc?

-- Sam

 

[Glupy]

I'm tellin' Princess Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid about you guys!

Dave

 

[don44]

They did make Black Talon ammo in 44 Magnum. Shoots pretty good too!

 

[Coogs]

Wow! I'll really be in trouble then. I've got a box or two in .308! Coogs.

 

[mattsbox99]

SXT= Same Xact Thing, SXT2= even more killing power

 

[Snake45]

I was in a gun shop one day when a guy walked in and asked for a box of "them Black Felon bullets." :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Snookkatcher]

The 'Infamous Black Talon' rears it's ugly head again.....LOL! The classic case study of good ammo hyped 'over the top' by 'gunshop commandos', picked up on by totally clueless, anti-gun, brain-damaged Socialist Progressive 'journalists' as being only good for killing cops..( HOW they reached that conclusion is totally beyond me...) and threatening the health of OR Docs and nurses...( by having the points of the 'talons' being needle-sharp, they would pierce the latex gloves of ER/OR personnel groping around in wounds and pass on AIDS and such....no kiddin'...), finally leading to Winchester's banning their sale to civilians...( I guess if only cops shot these into bad guys, all of the above 'problems' would be null-and-void ), prompting a boycott of Winchester by shooters that lasted forever.....O.K., I'm good and nauseous now.
ANYHOW, the 'Black Talon' ammo was the Generation 3 version of current SXT ( Gen.4 ) and SXT II ( Gen.5 ). 'Rainman' is dead-on in that the new PDX-1 ( Bonded ) is Talon without the black Lubalox coating, slightly rounded 'Talon points', and Bonded jacket. ( Gen. 4 SXT was Talon with rounded 'points', and Gen. 5 SXT II had a slightly redesigned jacket taper, opening just a bit quicker.) BTW, I carry PDX-1 in my SR-9 9mm, and my Kimber Raptor II .45 ACP....Win. Ranger LE Bonded is PDX-1. The PDX-1 you can buy at Wal-Mart, good deal @ $18.97/20 in 9mm, and about $20.00/20 in .45ACP. Go figure.... Lee

>> PS...I do have about 40 rds. of the Old/Black 'Infamous' Black Talon .45 ACP....I usually carry a few rounds in my shooting box for laughs at the range...I'll pull out a round and 'whoever' will 'OOOHHH' and 'WHEEEEEWW'...glancing around to make sure any 'Govmint' types aren't looking...and offer up to $ 10.00 EACH for a few!! ( No, I've never sold any like that....I only LMAO and tell 'em about SXT or PDX-1.)

 

[Flash]

I believe the medical community lobbied hard against those because of the threat of the Aids virus while operating on potential HIV positive patients who were shot by the police. I lived in Baltimore during that time and I can't recall any suspicion about those being "Cop Killers", just "Slicers and Dicers".

 

[Snake45]

I believe the medical community lobbied hard against those because of the threat of the Aids virus while operating on potential HIV positive patients who were shot by the police. I lived in Baltimore during that time and I can't recall any suspicion about those being "Cop Killers", just "Slicers and Dicers".

Yeah, I remember hearing about that as well.

 

[ProfessorWes]

I bought three 20-round boxes of 9mm Black Talons back in the early nineties and tried them out in my Beretta. Alas, I had feeding problems with that first box of BTs (my Beretta doesn't like 147-grain loadings like the BT). I ended up giving the other two boxes to a financially-strapped deputy sheriff of my family's acquaintance, who used BTs as a duty load in his Glock.

After Winchester pulled the Talons off the market, I found myself wishing I had those two boxes back. Especially when I go to a gun show and find folks offering - and getting - $75 for an unopened box of the very same 147-grain 9mm Talons I gave away for free...

Sigh.

 

[M'BOGO]

I remember the initial anti frenzy started because of a mass shooting on a train on the east coast. The shooter was using BLACK TALONS, bullets designed to literally rip someones guts out. Winchester caught a brick to the head on that one, and their PR people had to work for their money.

Just recently, I heard a guy at work talking to some other guys in his crew. It seems he knows a Gunny (?) at the Sherrif's dept, who is gonna get him some Black Talons!!!!

 

[ProfessorWes]

Yeah, M'Bogo, that would be the Long Island Railroad shooting. IIRC, a creep named Colin Ferguson, who was black, went nuts and started shooting. All of Ferguson's two dozen or so victims were Caucasian.

Quite apart from the effect the publicity had on Winchester - and Ruger, to a lesser extent; I believed Ferguson used a Ruger P-series pistol of some sort - the shooting also got the very anti-gun Carolyn "The Shoulder Thing That Goes Up" McCarthy elected to the U.S. House of Representatives. Two of her family members were caught in Ferguson's rampage, and she's been blaming gun owners for it ever since.

 

[glockmutt]

Speaking of movies, wasn't this the basis of the "cop killer bullets" in one of the Lethal Weapon movies? 9mms shooting through bulldozer blades, etc?

-- Sam

According to my 1972 "Law Enforcement Handgun Digest" the bullet your referring to was a KTW. Tungsten core penetrator with a Teflon coating. I think they were actually green in color. Later versions went to a hardened steel core. This stuff would pass through twice the thickness of anything a regular factory "armor piercing" round would. Body armor would not stop them. Bulldozer blades??? Maybe and maybe not. Hollywood hype!

 

[M'BOGO]

Professor, I agree with you too, I recall a Ruger 9MM that you mention it. Horrible messed up ugly.

 

[SDPEC]

I believe the medical community lobbied hard against those because of the threat of the Aids virus while operating on potential HIV positive patients who were shot by the police. I lived in Baltimore during that time and I can't recall any suspicion about those being "Cop Killers", just "Slicers and Dicers".

We were a Winchester law enforcement distributor when the Black talon came out. We never had any medical community concerns. Any PR issues came solely from the press.

Little trivia....the original name for the round was supposed to be "Black Widow".

Seriously.....

At least wiser heads at Winchester stopped that one.

And today's SXT rounds from Winchester aren't the same as the Black Talon, they're much improved.

 

[SDPEC]

Speaking of movies, wasn't this the basis of the "cop killer bullets" in one of the Lethal Weapon movies? 9mms shooting through bulldozer blades, etc?

-- Sam

According to my 1972 "Law Enforcement Handgun Digest" the bullet your referring to was a KTW. Tungsten core penetrator with a Teflon coating. I think they were actually green in color. Later versions went to a hardened steel core. This stuff would pass through twice the thickness of anything a regular factory "armor piercing" round would. Body armor would not stop them. Bulldozer blades??? Maybe and maybe not. Hollywood hype!

Correct. The KTW rounds came out in the 50's or early 60's. They were marketed to LE for shooting at cars, as soft body armor was a non issue in those days. Winchester and Remington both marketed rounds for the same purpose. In the 70's, some reporter saw "armor piercing" and assumed they meant body armor. There was a national news story, and the term "Cop Killer bullet" was coined. As far as I know, no police officer was ever killed by the KTW, "cop killer" bullet. But the press's, and some politicians fascination with the idea, certainly got cops killed by all the publicity they generated on police wearing concealable body armor. I'm aware of at least one subject, just in my local area, who shot a police officer in the head, because he said he saw news coverage about police wearing body armor at the time.

 

[M'BOGO]

I am all for the free press, and thankful we have a semblance of one. But it angers me to no end when they give details, to give the story some meat, that tells bad people how to avoid the police next time, too the hazard of the general puplic.

 

[Saltcreek]

The old Black Talon is not the same bullet as the PDX1. The profile is about the same, but the PDX is a bonded bullet similar to the way Gold Dots are bonded. The Black Talon, while being evil and scary, was designed before they were bonding the bullets. You can see this by looking at a mushroomed Talon. It has the scary pointy razor like petls that are separated from the lead. If it was bonded, the jacket would not cleanly separate from the lead.