Bevel or No Bevel ?

[Hylander]

I'm not sure I'm understanding the whole Bevel Base VS. Non Bevel Base bullet issue (Revolvers).
So I'm getting ready to order some cast for my .44
I keep reading posts of guys saying not use bevel base, but almost all commercial casters sell the bevel base. I see Dardas is highly recommended, but all they sell is bevel base.
So whats the real skinny on this ?
Basicly I want a .240SWC or would prefer a Keith 240-250

 

[Tellico]

It is like the 270 vs 30-06 debate. One gun scribe will say flat base is more acc. the next will say bevel based is. Bevel base is a tad easier to load but I fail to find any difference in acc. due to the base if the bullet is sized for the bore. MHO. Hard to go wrong with a Keith style. Bullet hardness is more important than the base to me.

 

[mikld]

Bevel based bulles were designed for easier bullet seating and they fall from the mold easier, better for commercial casters (look at the Magma bullet designs). The side against bevel bases say they allow gas cutting up around the bevel and side of the bullet; not making a good seal, and leading results. I have used them, but can't say I get any more leading with them because I've loaded them fairly light. Others say accuracy is better with plain based bullets (which I prefer), but I only used them in revolvers and fine accuracy isn't my forte. I prefer a plain based bullet, sized to cylinder throats, of wheel weight alloy...

 

[Hylander]

Hard to go wrong with a Keith style. Bullet hardness is more important than the base to me.

I was hoping to have loads in the 800-900fps for loading .44 Special and 800-1100fps for the .44 Mag
Most bullets I am finding are around 18 BHN and .430
I know my Cylinders are at least .431

 

[steve b]

Penn will size larger, mine at .431. But they are bevel-base. I understand the logic behind going with plain base bullets. I think a proper sized bullet for your gun, in a soft enough mix of lead, will still seal the bore. Many here, have many more 1000's of lead bullets down bore than I though. steve b

 

[DGW1949]

All else being equal, I'll take a flat-based bullet.
Thing is though, when fooling with cast bullets, the "all else equal" part seldom exist. So untill it does, there's more important things to consider before loading this or that bullet than whether it's got a beveled base or not.

Just my 02 .

DGW

 

[LAH]

The battle will go on forever, flat vs bevel. I don't take sides it's useless. The bevel bullets usually come from machines & are SWC design not Keiths. Here's two pictures of what most the world calls a Keith. They are hand cast. The first is 250 grain, the second pushing 260, both 44s. There's a couple places which sell Keiths. You can find them on line. I suggest Beartooth or Mt. Baldy. We have them at times also.

 

[Hylander]

The battle will go on forever, flat vs bevel. I don't take sides it's useless. The bevel bullets usually come from machines & are SWC design not Keiths. Here's two pictures of what most the world calls a Keith. They are hand cast. The first is 250 grain, the second pushing 260, both 44s. There's a couple places which sell Keiths. You can find them on line. I suggest Beartooth or Mt. Baldy. We have them at times also.

Thanks for the suggestions
However, can't see myself paying $24 and up per 100 for a cast bullet for target shooting :shock:

 

[DGW1949]

Thanks for the suggestions
However, can't see myself paying $24 and up per 100 for a cast bullet for target shooting :shock:[/quote]

Yeah that.....and my experience has not convenced me that a "Keith" is anymore accurate than a "regular" SWC anyhow. Maybe it was back in they day with the loads 'n lube that it was designed for, at the pressures it was designed for, and at the ranges it was designed for....but THAT lube aint what they come with these days, most of us aint shooting the hughe amounts of 2400 that Mr Keith did, nor pushing the envelope on pressures, nor are we taking 400-yd shots at a moving mule deer with our 4" revolvers.

No, I'm sure of it. You find yourself some conventional soft-cast (or swaged) lead SWC's that is sized right for your bore and you'll be fine at the velocity ranges you mention. If you can do that AND your bullet has a flat base, then more the better. If it don't, I'm betting that such bullets will work fine for you anyway, and if not, try coating the bullet with Alox. For what you are doing, Alox beats "crayon lube" 6 ways from Sunday.

Just sayin'.

DGW

 

[Rclark]

All I shoot is bevel based bullets, .357, .44, and .45 ... For my purposes they seem accurate enough.... and I don't have leading issues (enough to matter). Just recently I did some .44Mag testing with 240g SWCs BHN 15 from Rimrock. From 900-1300 fps using 2400. No significant leading, and as for accuracy, I don't see how it could get any 'better' (at least at my level of shooting)... ~1 to 3 inch groups at 25Y (from bench... sure wish I had a Ransom Rest!) just seem good enough depending on load. Dinging an 8" steel plate at 75 yards off hand no problem (usually). I guess what I am saying is I am completely satisfied with shooting bevel based bullets. As for hunting (I don't handgun hunt), I don't see how a bevel base is going to affect penetration either or in a close defensive situation. YMMV ... just my limited experience.

Note I have never shot any flat based bullets to compare back to back.... FWIW

 

[Hylander]

I ordered some 240SWC from Dardas

 

[LAH]

The battle will go on forever, flat vs bevel. I don't take sides it's useless. The bevel bullets usually come from machines & are SWC design not Keiths. Here's two pictures of what most the world calls a Keith. They are hand cast. The first is 250 grain, the second pushing 260, both 44s. There's a couple places which sell Keiths. You can find them on line. I suggest Beartooth or Mt. Baldy. We have them at times also.

Thanks for the suggestions
However, can't see myself paying $24 and up per 100 for a cast bullet for target shooting :shock:

Not everyone charges 24.00/100. You can get them at 10-12 BHN with LBT Lube for 15 cents each. Just saying.

 

[steve b]

Them's some pretty bullets Creeker ! Almost a shame to shoot them into something dirty ! steve b

 

[LAH]

Them's some pretty bullets Creeker ! Almost a shame to shoot them into something dirty ! steve b

HEE HEE you could always fish clear water with them. :lol:

 

[Hylander]

Not everyone charges 24.00/100. You can get them at 10-12 BHN with LBT Lube for 15 cents each. Just saying.

I would order some for that price.
Where can I get some

 

[dcl]

I would also like to purchase some of the same if they are available.. dcl

 

[LAH]

Not everyone charges 24.00/100. You can get them at 10-12 BHN with LBT Lube for 15 cents each. Just saying.

I would order some for that price.
Where can I get some

PM inbound.

 

[Lee Martin]

Like many of you, I've shot tens of thousands of each and can't tell a difference. If the hardness is right and it's sized correctly, I'm indifferent to the base.

 

[gramps]

Hornady swaged .430's are around $27.00 for 250. They have a BHN around 12. Most LGS have them.
gramps

 

[Donaldjr1969]

Hornady swaged .430's are around $27.00 for 250. They have a BHN around 12. Most LGS have them.
gramps

I've shot their swaged bullets in my P90, specifically their 230g LRN. They are a nice bullet. The only thing with their swaged bullets is the dry lube they use. Very little seems to remain on the knurled driving band of that bullet. So for craps and giggles, I tried a bit of Mule Snot (Lee Liquid ALOX) on them. I tumble-lubed them and it worked well, but a lot of lube was wasted that stuck to the ogive of the bullet. A lot was also shaved off during seating. So I came up with a solution that was just as effective but time consuming. I used my finger to smear the ALOX (I used it as-is and did not cut it with mineral spirits or the like) into the knurling only. Again, while it took time to do that with 50 bullets, there was no lube being shaved during seating, no wasted lube on the nose, and best of all, no leading in my P90.

 

[Idaho Spud]

I'm with the "reduced gas-cutting" crowd in re to PBased boolits. I have a Lee mold 200 gr., SWC PB that I get virtually no leading in 2 1911's at the usual (750-850 fps) velocities. Can't say the same for any commercial projectiles I buy. Granted, they are generally somewhat harder and possibly lack the necessary obturation characteristics of my own cast slugs. Still, I like 'em with plain bases or GC bases.