Thank you for not using decimals!
Are Single Actions Still Popular?
- Thread starter JackBull
- Start date
Thank you for not using decimals!
Glad I'm not the only one for whom "4.62" is like fingernails on a chalkboard. ;)
I'm under the impression that the decimals came to prominence due to to manufacturers using them. I think it's in relation to Canadian gun laws(?). (Read: SP101 w/4.20" barrel.)
Now I see that Ruger is using decimals in the single action line, too. I can abide 5.5" and 6.5" barrel lengths, I suppose.
-BUT-
I will never refer to my beloved 4-5/8" Single-Sixes as having 4.62" barrels…
That's just unclean…
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Paul B
Hunter
My normal CCW weapon is a Colt Commander chambered t the .45 ACP. I have at times carried a Colt Single Action in .45 Colt just because I can. I feel just as well armed with the SAA as with the Commander. Before a bad car accident sidelined me, I usually carried a single action of one brand or another on my desert and mountain hikes. One time it might be the Colt and other times the Ruger. It's all good.
Paul B.
Paul B.
You mean the giant carrot!
I hope you rounded up shorter or she'll be very disappointed in your barrel length, and think you're only a derringer and only good for hitting the belly button.
I am a Ruger Double Action revolver collector but I still love the Ruger Single Actions (I'm up to 17 of them right now from OM Flattops to Wranglers) and I have actually used some of them in displays with my DA's.
OP
JackBull
Hunter
Why are you thinking about me that way. Sorry but Im hetero.
lipofsky
Single-Sixer
I have several pistols either Double action Revolvers, Semi-autos and two single actions, A Single six and a Blackhawk .38/357/9mm, I like shooting the single actions best. no excuses just the pure joy of cocking the hammer and then pulling the triger.
DGW1949
Hawkeye
Actually, 4-5/8"=4.625"...Yeah, thousandths do count....But hey, it could be worse. At least we haven't started using metric measurements....Leastways, not YET.
DGW
DGW
I have one of these Vaquero "Sheriff Models" in .45 Colt and two stainless in .357. Great shooters and easy to pack around.
By the way...i have a Lipsey's limited edition single action in .41 mag on order with a local large volume gun shop for a few months now.
I have asked status several times and no updates on availability are available. I'm soon to be 76 years old, so would like to see it sometime in the fairly near future, lol !!!
I have asked status several times and no updates on availability are available. I'm soon to be 76 years old, so would like to see it sometime in the fairly near future, lol !!!
If they are actually Old Model (3-screw) guns with 3" barrels they are almost certainly "custom" efforts. If well done, these would likely have some collector interest to someone. :)
consumerignorance
Bearcat
I was poking around the forum and saw this thread, so I made an account to reply. I’m planning to stick around, too!
I’m 25, so fit squarely into this category.
I think older folks don’t realize the barrier to entry with single action revolvers for new shooters.
Ruger single actions — especially the Bisleys — are tough to find. I’ve been looking for a 480 for a while and I can’t find a single one. I can’t even manage to find a 44/45 bisley in stainless for an eventual .500 something base gun.
Custom revolver ‘smiths are mostly passed away or retired. The ones who are left have years-long backlogs. And a good ‘smith-tuned gun will quickly run over $3000 for just the work.
Ammo’s prohibitively expensive. Powder and reloading equipment is scarce to non-existent. Leather is either cheap (bad) or high quality and expensive, and frequently has wait times of its own.
My generation didn’t grow up with John Wayne: we grew up on Tom Cruise or Jason Statham. My dad — an avid Wayne watcher in his childhood — never showed me a single John Wayne movie. And he’s older than most: Gen Z’s parents usually grew up on Arnold or Stallone. We don’t have the nostalgia for single actions wholesale, let alone Rugers.
Don’t even get me started on why my generation doesn’t get into Single Action Armies. Suffice it to say that it starts and ends with cost.
With all due respect, older folks have cornered the market, and it’s going to kill the interest in short order unless something changes. It’s already happening with old cars, and it’s coming to single actions soon.
I’m more determined than most, so I think my projects will eventually pan out. But the barrier to entry is simply too high for most young shooters. Getting an average Gen Z shooter (like my brother with his 365X Macro or my sister with her Glock 19) interested in single actions isn’t going to happen without the hobby becoming more accessible. Which is a damn shame.
My $0.02.
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While not as prolific as they once were they still have quite the following. 
contender
Ruger Guru
consumerignorance,, first off; "Welcome to the Forum!"
That said,, you make some very good points. The younger folks were not exposed to SA handguns like many of us were.
They grew up on the "plastic-fantastic" types of guns.
And the expense,, yep,, that has an effect.
REAL guns,, like the SA or even the DA revolvers require SKILLED workers to build them correctly. And the expense to build them has gone up a lot,, hence the higher prices.
But to find a gun you seek or desire,, like the .480's or a gun to build a custom out of,, is actually easy if you use one of the bigger gun auction sites. You just can't always go into too many gun shops & fondle several like we USED to be able to do.
Why?
Good guns sell to well educated & dedicated shooters.
I see a lot of younger folks in USPSA shooting matches. The will spend big bucks to buy a gun and then trick it out with all kinds of aftermarket items because that's what they THINK it needs.
Follow up with the fact they want to be part of the "shoot fast" types & "high capacity" gun types.
I listened to 4 guys at a big USPSA match last year, as we were working a stage as RO's. They were all giddy about their whiz-bang plastic-fantastic guns (all are 9mm cal guns,) & how good they were. When one of them made a comment on how accurate his handgun was at 20 yds,, by shooting a 4"-5" group,, I had to get into the conversation.
I calmly & politely asked him; "How accurate is it at 50 yds?" His reply was; "Nobody shoots at 50 yds." I chuckled & said; "I deer hunt with a handgun, and regularly make shots in excess of 50 yds & out beyond 100 yds." I told them that I have several handguns that will group 4" or less at 100 yds easily.
They looked like I was from outer space. They did NOT believe me, and one finally said so in a round about way.
I quietly challenged them to this; "I have a handgun in my truck, in a case of course & empty. But I also have ammo in the truck. There is a 100 yd rifle range here at this club. I'll get us permission to use it,, and I'll use open sights, and bet you I can easily fire 5 shots,, with a sitting position, at 100 yds, and get a group of 5" or less. I've got $500 in my pocket, and you figure out how much you can afford to lose up to that mark, and I'll prove it. Put YOUR money,, where your mouth is."
They refused to even consider it,, but I could see they didn't believe me.
Later on,, a squad came through,, with a guy in the squad,, who has a several National Titles to his name. He got out of the "game" for a while. He said I was the first "old timer" he knew! After a moment of hugs & such,, he asked me how my deer hunting had been going. I replied with a few pics on my phone, and he was conversing with me and asking about the guns & distances & such. Then,, I like to have choked when he said, (where these guys heard it, and w/o knowing what I had done to them,) "You are the da**edest deer hunter I know killing all those deer with a handgun."
Younger shooters FAIL to understand real SA handguns & the abilities they can provide. They have NOT been taught that accuracy begins at 25 yds, and serious handgunners shoot out to 100 & 200 yds accurately, and with good frequency. They fail to look at history & IHMSA shooting. Rams at 200 meters, that have to be knocked over to get a "hit" score are NOT easy.
And while I have very limited Silhouette experience,, I have played at it some. But I use the same types of skills there as necessary for hunting.
Basically, the money thing,, I kinda agree with,, AND disagree with.
Yes,, you can buy a "plastic-fantastic wonder-9" for a lot less than a good SA handgun. But the very same types will often spend several hundreds to "trick it out" to where the SA handgun is actually LESS expensive to get & use. Right out of the box,, most quality SA handguns, can be used as is,, and are more than capable to get the job done.
My point is,,, that if anybody has a good introduction to good SA handguns,, AND proper shooting techniques,, they will suddenly find themselves buying them.
As for availability,, fewer of them are being made,, because it's easier, quicker & cheaper for companies to make larger quantities of the plastic-fantastic types,, that use modular parts.
It's about their profit margin.
BTW; Building a custom SA handgun & it's expense is a different level over the average gun buyer.
Yes,, we have lost or are losing some of the truly great custom SA handgun builders. But there are others who are quietly building their own reputation.
Ammo is more expensive,, and good SA ammo isn't as easily found on gun store shelves because too many people in general,, just want the 9mm or .223 stuff.
Serious shooters will buy the ammo OR the components & reload no matter what the caliber. Reloading equipment is easy to find. And yes,, the components (powder & primers) have been tough to find,, but it's getting better. Brass & bullets are easy to find.
It becomes even easier if you cast & PC your own bullets.
I see you are in Tennessee.
We just wrapped up the "Gathering" at my place. I had a member here that's from Tennessee as well as folks from other places. We had 4 others who traveled through Tenn AND stopped to shop there. You CAN find good SA handguns in Tennessee. It's just where you look that makes a difference.
What part of Tennessee are you in?
Please,, by all means,, hang around here. And if we can help ya,, we will!
That said,, you make some very good points. The younger folks were not exposed to SA handguns like many of us were.
They grew up on the "plastic-fantastic" types of guns.
And the expense,, yep,, that has an effect.
REAL guns,, like the SA or even the DA revolvers require SKILLED workers to build them correctly. And the expense to build them has gone up a lot,, hence the higher prices.
But to find a gun you seek or desire,, like the .480's or a gun to build a custom out of,, is actually easy if you use one of the bigger gun auction sites. You just can't always go into too many gun shops & fondle several like we USED to be able to do.
Why?
Good guns sell to well educated & dedicated shooters.
I see a lot of younger folks in USPSA shooting matches. The will spend big bucks to buy a gun and then trick it out with all kinds of aftermarket items because that's what they THINK it needs.
Follow up with the fact they want to be part of the "shoot fast" types & "high capacity" gun types.
I listened to 4 guys at a big USPSA match last year, as we were working a stage as RO's. They were all giddy about their whiz-bang plastic-fantastic guns (all are 9mm cal guns,) & how good they were. When one of them made a comment on how accurate his handgun was at 20 yds,, by shooting a 4"-5" group,, I had to get into the conversation.
I calmly & politely asked him; "How accurate is it at 50 yds?" His reply was; "Nobody shoots at 50 yds." I chuckled & said; "I deer hunt with a handgun, and regularly make shots in excess of 50 yds & out beyond 100 yds." I told them that I have several handguns that will group 4" or less at 100 yds easily.
They looked like I was from outer space. They did NOT believe me, and one finally said so in a round about way.
I quietly challenged them to this; "I have a handgun in my truck, in a case of course & empty. But I also have ammo in the truck. There is a 100 yd rifle range here at this club. I'll get us permission to use it,, and I'll use open sights, and bet you I can easily fire 5 shots,, with a sitting position, at 100 yds, and get a group of 5" or less. I've got $500 in my pocket, and you figure out how much you can afford to lose up to that mark, and I'll prove it. Put YOUR money,, where your mouth is."
They refused to even consider it,, but I could see they didn't believe me.
Later on,, a squad came through,, with a guy in the squad,, who has a several National Titles to his name. He got out of the "game" for a while. He said I was the first "old timer" he knew! After a moment of hugs & such,, he asked me how my deer hunting had been going. I replied with a few pics on my phone, and he was conversing with me and asking about the guns & distances & such. Then,, I like to have choked when he said, (where these guys heard it, and w/o knowing what I had done to them,) "You are the da**edest deer hunter I know killing all those deer with a handgun."
Younger shooters FAIL to understand real SA handguns & the abilities they can provide. They have NOT been taught that accuracy begins at 25 yds, and serious handgunners shoot out to 100 & 200 yds accurately, and with good frequency. They fail to look at history & IHMSA shooting. Rams at 200 meters, that have to be knocked over to get a "hit" score are NOT easy.
And while I have very limited Silhouette experience,, I have played at it some. But I use the same types of skills there as necessary for hunting.
Basically, the money thing,, I kinda agree with,, AND disagree with.
Yes,, you can buy a "plastic-fantastic wonder-9" for a lot less than a good SA handgun. But the very same types will often spend several hundreds to "trick it out" to where the SA handgun is actually LESS expensive to get & use. Right out of the box,, most quality SA handguns, can be used as is,, and are more than capable to get the job done.
My point is,,, that if anybody has a good introduction to good SA handguns,, AND proper shooting techniques,, they will suddenly find themselves buying them.
As for availability,, fewer of them are being made,, because it's easier, quicker & cheaper for companies to make larger quantities of the plastic-fantastic types,, that use modular parts.
It's about their profit margin.
BTW; Building a custom SA handgun & it's expense is a different level over the average gun buyer.
Yes,, we have lost or are losing some of the truly great custom SA handgun builders. But there are others who are quietly building their own reputation.
Ammo is more expensive,, and good SA ammo isn't as easily found on gun store shelves because too many people in general,, just want the 9mm or .223 stuff.
Serious shooters will buy the ammo OR the components & reload no matter what the caliber. Reloading equipment is easy to find. And yes,, the components (powder & primers) have been tough to find,, but it's getting better. Brass & bullets are easy to find.
It becomes even easier if you cast & PC your own bullets.
I see you are in Tennessee.
We just wrapped up the "Gathering" at my place. I had a member here that's from Tennessee as well as folks from other places. We had 4 others who traveled through Tenn AND stopped to shop there. You CAN find good SA handguns in Tennessee. It's just where you look that makes a difference.
What part of Tennessee are you in?
Please,, by all means,, hang around here. And if we can help ya,, we will!
52 years ago the guy I was working for started being a prepper because the world was going to collapse. I was young and impressionable. He told me about this Ruger Super Single Six he bought. I thought it was cool and affordable. I headed off to my local gunstore and they started writing it up. I pull out my drivers license and he says whoa, you’re only 18 years old. I said yeah I know. He informed me handgun purchase is 21 years old. Dammit. Last February I was in a local gun store and they had the Ruger Single Ten and it went home with me. Really glad I bought it, very happy with it. It’s the stainless model.
Attachments
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ChrisL
Single-Sixer
Does anyone have enough pull w Ruger to get the statistics on SA revolvers (# made, # sold, by year) ? I'd like to see these especially if there's a trend to be deduced.
contender
Ruger Guru
Well, Ruger doesn't share production numbers.
Older stuff,,,, the best way to see what was produced each year is to use the Red Eagle News Exchange Reference Guide.
It lists the serial numbers of the models by the start & finish of the ones produced each year. You'd have to calculate the various models,, by doing the math,, to see what was produced.
But even that can be misleading.
Just because they made the guns,, doesn't mean they sold that many that year.
Plus,,, they often make a run of a certain model,, then switch the production line to another model. They may not make the first model any more that year.
So I seriously doubt you can get the "simple" statistics you are asking for.
Besides,, during the covid crap,, a LOT of models got put into limbo while they didn't have employees to build them. They have been slowly coming back to building various models since.
Older stuff,,,, the best way to see what was produced each year is to use the Red Eagle News Exchange Reference Guide.
It lists the serial numbers of the models by the start & finish of the ones produced each year. You'd have to calculate the various models,, by doing the math,, to see what was produced.
But even that can be misleading.
Just because they made the guns,, doesn't mean they sold that many that year.
Plus,,, they often make a run of a certain model,, then switch the production line to another model. They may not make the first model any more that year.
So I seriously doubt you can get the "simple" statistics you are asking for.
Besides,, during the covid crap,, a LOT of models got put into limbo while they didn't have employees to build them. They have been slowly coming back to building various models since.
You have been very honest. I’m in Missouri, and there are single actions to be had here. Of course, they are very expensive, even for an old man like myself, who grew up with William Boyd, John Wayne, Henry Fonda, and Clint Eastwood, to mention a few. COVID did more than a lot of damage to prices in general, virtually ruined the powder and reloading supplies and equipment availability. I say COVID, but it was actually our governments want to control what we could and couldn’t do or buy. So, that is where the real concern is. Watch out for government controls and do what you can to put a lease on government. Probably, the best 2nd Amendment defenders is Gun Owners of America. Join it, and keep looking for what you want to shoot and aim small (Mel Gibson).
Send Ruger an email with your questions, and follow up with a phone call.
Which came first... the chicken or the egg?
I still buy, regularly, all steel revolvers, both single action and double action.
Seldom do I buy them from directly from a store, as seldom will a store stock what I want. I must search them out online and have them delivered to a store, and then the store still gets a cut.
If I am able to order a revolver and have it delivered, the FFL dealer could do the the same and have inventory on their shelves. But the youngsters around here have little to zero interest in these revolvers, so the dealer doesn't want to tie up his inventory on guns that will be difficult to sell. Then folks blame us old codgers for tying up the market?
Further, the youngsters have such disdain for us oldsters and our antique guns, there's little chance we can share with them what we know.
There may be an awful lot of unfair generalizations from both sides of this discussion. I have offered many times to the local online crowd, to share my revolvers at the range with folks that would like some experience with them. I'd even sell them a revolver or two if they could not find one elsewhere. I get no takers.
.
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consumerignorance
Bearcat
You make a phenomenal point, and I have to revise my original position some. Young shooters buy "race guns" and dump ridiculous amounts of money into them, largely to shy away from ANY recoil. Which is a stupid proposition.
Like shooters of prior generations, I think they are attempting to imitate on-screen heroes: John Wick shoots that way (and incidentally, Keanu Reeves actually trains like a real competition shooter for his movies), so young shooters imitate that.
That said, I think the critique of it being more of an interest "issue" than a "money" issue is largely fair, which is where I'll revise my original stance. I do think money plays a role - particularly for the casual shooter not being interested in single-actions - but I think you're ultimately right for the class of more advanced younger shooters.
I am in Middle Tennessee. There are more shops around than I initially realized! I might just make a habit of perusing pawn shops to see what I can find. There may be hope yet!
I certainly plan to stay, and I appreciate the thoughtful reply and the offer to help. I'm looking forward to being here!
consumerignorance
Bearcat
I hope my honesty wasn't to a fault, and I hope my original post didn't come across as an indictment of any specific group (I certainly didn't mean it as such).
COVID did a real number on anything that wasn't stamped 9mm or .223/5.56, which is a true shame. Interestingly, I've seen a resurgent interest in .45 ACP in my generation, which I think will continue. Maybe I need to make a pilgrimage up to Missouri to do some revolver hunting!
I'll sign up for GOA - it's a good recommendation. I am a current member of FPC. I haven't been very impressed with the NRA, and they've done nothing in recent years to make me think that I should be.
consumerignorance
Bearcat
Well first, it's a shame that we don't shoot at the same range! I'd be thrilled to see and chat with someone shooting nice revolvers at the range. Sorry to hear about your bad experiences with the younger crowd.
Second, I have to apologize for my post impugning older folks. While I have some criticisms, I think market economics (COVID, rising costs, inflation, low revolver demand) and Hollywood (what's cool) probably have more to do with the younger generation's lack of interest. Even if older folks were primarily responsible for the lack of interest in sum, it's certainly not ascribable to any one person, group, or forum. So I think the implication that generations before mine play an outsized role - particularly in the poor economics of single actions - isn't fair. My apologies. The entire situation is nevertheless regrettable.
Online purchases have been really helpful for me. I'm sure it's burdened brick-and-mortar stores, but it's exceptionally convenient, and certainly dangerous for my wallet!
Thank you for thoughtful reply!
contender
Ruger Guru
consumerignorance,, you do make some good points.
And yes,, Mr. Reeves does actually train for his John Wick movies. With a gentleman named Taran Butler. I know Taran. He's a top level championship shooter.
And yes,, that kind of movie does make for a certain mindset among younger shooters. But them "shying away" from recoil may not be the best description. In competition,, where you are running against a timer,, you want faster shooting,, so a milder recoiling handgun allows that.
Sadly,, many of these very same shooters never actually learn how to shoot a REAL handgun that has SERIOUS recoil. I know,, I've introduced a few to that. Movies & such make shooting seem effortless. The opposite is true. But too many THINK it's that way.
Too bad you didn't see the stuff in the Lounge about my "Ruger Forum East Coast Gathering" sooner. We just held it. Middle Tennessee isn't too far, and much shorter than what some of the fine folks here travel to be here.
And you could have enjoyed shooting all kinds of good revolvers here as well.
Maybe next year????????
Casual shooters.
Well, that's a very broad field. And age isn't a factor. Casual shooters abound across all types of the shooting activities. One of my favorite analogies is how a "hunter" (using the term loosely) says something like; "I can hit a pie plate at 100 yds. That's good enough to kill a deer!" Or even worse; "I only shoot at deer, I never waste ammo with practice!"
Serious shooters are different. Again,,, age isn't a big factor. Heck,, even LEO's,, only about 15% of them are actual shooters who practice. Yes,, approximately 85% of the very people tasked with our community safety, WHILE BEING ARMED,, are NOT good shooters.
Throw in revolvers,, and heck,, many LEO's don't even know how to check them to see if they are loaded.
But revolvers,, are the base for so many serious shooting activities,, it's a shame more attention isn't paid to them. The manufacturers just follow what sells, and that encompasses the largest percentage of people,, the "casual" gun owner.
I enjoy hunting with a handgun, and even now, after decades of doing so,, I still have local "buddies" who scoff at it.
I'll throw out something else for you.
If you find yourself headed to WNC,, near the Asheville area,, you have an open invitation to visit AND shoot several revolvers. Most will be Rugers,, but I will admit to having a few older S&W DA revolvers.
And yes,, Mr. Reeves does actually train for his John Wick movies. With a gentleman named Taran Butler. I know Taran. He's a top level championship shooter.
And yes,, that kind of movie does make for a certain mindset among younger shooters. But them "shying away" from recoil may not be the best description. In competition,, where you are running against a timer,, you want faster shooting,, so a milder recoiling handgun allows that.
Sadly,, many of these very same shooters never actually learn how to shoot a REAL handgun that has SERIOUS recoil. I know,, I've introduced a few to that. Movies & such make shooting seem effortless. The opposite is true. But too many THINK it's that way.
Too bad you didn't see the stuff in the Lounge about my "Ruger Forum East Coast Gathering" sooner. We just held it. Middle Tennessee isn't too far, and much shorter than what some of the fine folks here travel to be here.
And you could have enjoyed shooting all kinds of good revolvers here as well.
Maybe next year????????
Casual shooters.
Well, that's a very broad field. And age isn't a factor. Casual shooters abound across all types of the shooting activities. One of my favorite analogies is how a "hunter" (using the term loosely) says something like; "I can hit a pie plate at 100 yds. That's good enough to kill a deer!" Or even worse; "I only shoot at deer, I never waste ammo with practice!"
Serious shooters are different. Again,,, age isn't a big factor. Heck,, even LEO's,, only about 15% of them are actual shooters who practice. Yes,, approximately 85% of the very people tasked with our community safety, WHILE BEING ARMED,, are NOT good shooters.
Throw in revolvers,, and heck,, many LEO's don't even know how to check them to see if they are loaded.
But revolvers,, are the base for so many serious shooting activities,, it's a shame more attention isn't paid to them. The manufacturers just follow what sells, and that encompasses the largest percentage of people,, the "casual" gun owner.
I enjoy hunting with a handgun, and even now, after decades of doing so,, I still have local "buddies" who scoff at it.
I'll throw out something else for you.
If you find yourself headed to WNC,, near the Asheville area,, you have an open invitation to visit AND shoot several revolvers. Most will be Rugers,, but I will admit to having a few older S&W DA revolvers.
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