another generator question... sort of

[blume357]

So, I broke down and bought a portable back up generator... runs on natural gas... is actually a try-fuel.
My one concern with this unit is the potential problem with very high end electronics... specifically our category 4 on demand hot water unit..... is there some devise black box type devise that can go in line with a low Amp appliance that will insure clean electricity?

Blume

 

[jimbo1096]

I'm not sure what could affect the water heater, but I use surge protectors on my appliances, computer, TV and stereo stuff, most of the time and especially when the generator is on. One's like this.

Category 4 water heaters usually refers to the type of gas venting. I know the on demand heaters use an electronic control module so perhaps a smaller version of surge protector with filter capability?

 

[Jeepnik]

I put a rather large UPS on my tankless. Not to protect the electronics, though that is a great side benefit, but so that my wife never lost hot water while in the shower should the power go out. Once was enough of that. I is a APC unit

 

[tazbigdog]

Looking to move back to PA. Top of my list is a Generac generator.

 

[Mobuck]

I have a mid-size APC between the input wiring and digital LP_ furnace. It doesn't have enough output to run the furnace alone but it should clean up the AC coming from the generator.

 

[laterider7]

Is this an 'inverter' type which generates AC, converts to DC, then back to AC to create a cleaner power source?
Also, have you looked at peak demand of the heater against the ratings of the generator?

 

[blume357]

No not an inverter... just one of those roll around units ... 7,000 watts running on natural gas... should be able to handle at least half the house and one of our mini-split systems....

the on demand gas water heater does not use hardly any electricity... just around half an amp. I have a slight worry about the generator messing up other electronics... but they are easily replaced.. TV's and such... but this water heater cost me $1700 and took me two days to install and the most important part is my wife would not be happy not having hot water during a power outage... me either actually....

Sounds like an APC unit might be the trick....

 

[Mobuck]

"Sounds like an APC unit might be the trick...."
I'm certainly NOT an electrician. Son spent a year as electrician's assistant and learned more in a year than I have in my entire life.
If your gas water heater only uses 1/2 amp, the APC is a good investment(just my opinion). It should protect the digital stuff from fluctuations and spikes and supply all the power needed to keep the heater working for a long time even w/o generator power.

 

[jimbo1096]

The only downside of the UPS is you have to change the battery(ies) about every 5 to 8 years.

 

[blume357]

I have never been able to look that far ahead.... not even close to that.

The way I actually look at it is now that I've bought this generator the power will never go off. I think we were with out power for about an hour or two in the last 2 years.... but back in I think it was 2008 we were down for a week. 80% of our heating does not require electricity and back then neither did the hot water.... I actually ran our direct tv system off a car battery and inverter.... we kept our perishable food cold by using the ice that kept sliding off the metal roof.... lighting was propane lanterns.... and that was a pain.... just trying to make our life easier...

 

[BBarn]

The generator I have now has poor power quality. It recently cooked a high pressure sodium light ballast and caused many GFI receptacles to fault. The GFIs returned to normal when normal power was restored. No such problems with my previous generator. So there are major differences in generator power quality.

I know of no low cost simple power conditioner that will clean up the entire power output of a generator, but there are probably such devices that can condition the power for small devices individually (that you could plug a few small devices into).

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

I have a mid-size APC between the input wiring and digital LP_ furnace. It doesn't have enough output to run the furnace alone but it should clean up the AC coming from the generator.

What type of heat distribution do you have? I have Gas / hot water heat. The only power needed is to light the pilot, which takes a second or two and only draws about 30 watts. Unless you are also running a hot air blower, the APC should work.
As for clean power for electronics, look for a generator that produces pure sine wave power. This means that the power is" pre-cleaned": That is, frequency and surged controlled. Just fine for any electronic device. I have been in the electronics field most of my life, among other things.

 

[blume357]

this hot water unit not only has an electronic pilot but also an exhaust fan that comes on ... amazingly it is a category 4 gas unit.... robs so much heat from the fire that water condenses in the heat exchanger and there is a drain for this... makes about a gallon of water a week from this..... what is hard to wrap one's head around is that this water is mostly not condensation taken from the combustion air but what is made when you actually burn natural gas and oxygen.... H4C _+ O the heat is just the energy from the atoms... what actually comes off is: CO2 (carbine dioxide) and H2O (water)

anywho... I've ordered a APC unit for the hot water... 1000 VA... should take care of it... and will probably get another one for our TV hook up.... I just checked our TV / Direct TV receiver and ROKU and it all pulls 1 amp... but now I just realized I've got two wireless AT&T thingies that hook to the two fiber optic lines ATT has running to the house that I probably need for each of them. Damn!

 

[Mobuck]

"What type of heat distribution do you have? I have Gas / hot water heat. The only power needed is to light the pilot, which takes a second or two and only draws about 30 watts. Unless you are also running a hot air blower, the APC should work."
FWIW I have a high efficiency LP furnace. It uses pressurized air for burn plus an igniter. There's a burn air blower that runs prior to burn ignition. When the fuel delivery solenoid and ignitor kicks in, the APC can't meet that instant need and the safety system for the furnace shuts the burn cycle down.

 

[blume357]

What I've been discussing is much like your LP furnace but just for hot water.... PVC pipe for a vent.... you might be right that the APC might not be able to handle it.... I think it pulls about an Amp on start up... I checked it a while back but now can't remember and who knows what I did with the note I made... oddly the manufacturer won't really tell you... I did not think about the surge at start up being a problem... I guess I will find out... this is actually a smaller one of the gas on demand water heaters... it is only running 160,000 btus compared to most of the ones I see out there are 195 or greater.....

Another thing I want to figure out is the BTU's on the generator when running... but I guess that will depend on the load....