Advise needed on new purchase

[Joey]

I just purchased this Old Model Blackhawk .357 Flat top serial # 26xxx. I have been looking for one that is not in good/collectors condition for a caliber conversion. While this one looks to be in good condition, it has been ceracoated, hammer and trigger have been jeweled and the grips are not original. The grip frame has been striped, XR3 and not stamped by Ruger for conversion. Good news is it has not been converted. I got it for a good price because it wasn't original. The advice I need is whether to convert it to .41 spec. leave it as is, or strip it and return it to original? I have an om .41 barrel for conversion. What would you do?

 

[Avyz66]

Well I will chime in here with only an opinion as a newbie. You stated you were looking for one with the plan for a caliber conversion. What is special about this purchase that now has you second guessing the original plan? Like I said, I am new and may be missing something that jumps out making this something that should be restored or leave as is. I would wait for more replies from the great people here with much more knowledge than I have to help steer you in the right direction. My only input is if this was purchased at a great price in this condition why stray from the original reason, the caliber conversion, and go a different rout?

JR

 

[peachhead]

Hmmm.
That kind of sucks, especially being a five digit serial number.
I would be tempted to have it reblued and leave it. It won't hurt to convert it though.

 

[hittman]

I like original stuff.
Your gun ~ your call.
Last thing I’d chop up would be an OM 41 Mag though.

 

[Joey]

Hey, AVYZ
Thanks for your reply. I am new to this forum myself, and I too appreciate the knowledge of folks here. The OM flat tops in good condition are sought after by Blackhawk collectors, so what gives me pause is the thought

I like original stuff.
Your gun ~ your call.
Last thing I'd chop up would be an OM 41 Mag though.

I bought the barrel from Numerich, Would not do that.

 

[Avyz66]

Understood. This is why I mentioned the fact you should wait for a reply from someone with more knowledge on this. Now I have a question and always looking to learn based on a comment in your original post.

"While this one looks to be in good condition, it has been ceracoated, hammer and trigger have been jeweled and the grips are not original. The grip frame has been striped, XR3 and not stamped by Ruger for conversion"

If it has been modified and all the items you listed above have been added / updated why would this be a sought-after model? I get the flat top and serial number being relevant but with all that has been changed and not original would it not be a better option to buy a flat top low serial number model from the start? Maybe the costs to put this back to original added to what you have invested is the kicker here. I don't know what a original one goes for or what the costs plus your out of pocket is and that may be the part I am missing. If what you have in it plus the additional costs to put it back in original condition is less than getting one for the going price then I get that. Sorry about the long winded reply. I am just not up to date on what is the best option.

JR

 

[Mobuck]

Sounds like this gun was someone's 'hobby project' and long past returning to anything approaching original. Do waht you want from this point forwardand don't feel guilty about it. :whistle:

 

[GasGuzzler]

I would do nothing but use it or sell it as is. Too much work to put it back to original and I have no desire for a .41.

 

[Joey]

Thanks for everyone's input. ARYZ has a good point, though a lot of the work I could do myself. If it was someone's hobby project, they were very good, not a bubba. Screw heads are like new, grips fit like a glove, and the grip frame is stripped with no scratches. Cylinder locks up with the slightest bit of play. Gap between cylinder and forcing cone is very tight. Trigger is VERY smooth, breaks like glass and has what feels like a 2 to 3 pound pull. I just picked it up yesterday, the seller said he got it from a friend a coupla' years ago, doesn't know anything about it's history and had not shot it. Even gave me 80 rounds factory ammo to go with it. As soon as it warms up a little I am taking it to the range, that will help my decision. May keep it as is and continue looking for one that has ridden under someone's truck seat for a few years, I missed out on one a few months ago. As for the .41 mag, it has been one of my favorite calibers since early. '70s. Always wondered why someone didn't make a special. Wasn't enough interest in the .41. Then Starline started making special brass, so maybe if enough people show interest. it will move out of the wildcat category. Probably not in my lifetime, but who knows?

 

[Hvymax]

Seems like a lot of work for nothing to me and I'm all about committing unnatural acts with metal!!!

 

[southernbuck101]

Looks like a fine candidate for a Turnbull restoration to me.
If you have the time to wait.

 

[woodperson]

I would do the .41 Special conversion. Order up some brass from Starline. Have something "special" when it is done. Not sure I could stand to "leave it like it is".

 

[Hvymax]

Seems like a lot of work and expense for semi normal. What would be really cool is reaming out the cylinders 3/4 of the way to 41 and necking down the brass to 357. You could call it the 357 Sig and Wesson!!! Even less work and absolutely unique??? If I'm putting time and money into Custom it's going to be the ONLY one in existence.

 

[contender]

I saw the OP & knew there would be all kinds of differing opinions.

The gun appears to be in very good condition considering the modifications. Personally, I'd shoot it to see how it shoots before making any decisions.
If it's a good shooter,, I'd leave it as it is.

The fact it's a Flattop,, and those in general are sought after,, modifying it to a different caliber alters it beyond reversal in general.
The grip frame & grips can be easily replaced. Hammers & triggers can be replaced. And yes,, even the cerakote can be removed & the gun re-blued. That would restore it to almost an "as shipped" condition.

The .41 Spl. Due to the nature of the .41 magnum being "less popular" in the general sense,, the .41 Spl is a LOT less popular in the masses. Yes,, Starline finally did make brass & will do so occasionally,, but I seriously doubt we'll see the .41 Spl ever become a mainstream offering.

If I were truly wanting a .41 Spl,, and planned a conversion,, I'd search out a later production 3-screw with the protected ears that was rougher,, and in need of a restoration. More of those out there than Flattops. I'd not alter a Flattop.

 

[Joey]

I would do the .41 Special conversion. Order up some brass from Starline. Have something "special" when it is done. Not sure I could stand to "leave it like it is".

Thanks for the comments. There are some conversions been done, never seen one for sale. I know what you mean about. "not sure you could stand......, seeing that hammer and trigger stands out like a nose piercing. And I have 400 Starline cases already. Load them for my other .41 mags.
I seem to be a "firearm rescuer", I bought another 5 digit OM .357 last year that had the front sight notched for an insert, which was missing, Bought an OM .41 mag 40- serial # that had a buggered up ejector shroud screw lug that someone had tried to remedy and drilled a hole thru the barrel, Sent it off to Ruger, now has a NM barrel. Can't complain as they didn't charge me. A few years ago I bought a Win. Model 75 that was covered in surface rust, stripped it down and took some 0000 steel wool and oil to it, now sports a Lyman Super Target Spot and is a one holer at 50 yds. Bought a model 52 Win that had a coat of some kind of high-gloss sticky varnish on it. Took it down to original finish with steel wool, Has a Fecker target scope on it, also a tack driver. Told a 'smith friend I felt like an old dog lover, has a yard full of mutts, not worth a thing but loves them all...............

 

[Joey]

I would do the .41 Special conversion. Order up some brass from Starline. Have something "special" when it is done. Not sure I could stand to "leave it like it is".

Thanks for the comments. There are some conversions been done, never seen one for sale. I know what you mean about. "not sure you could stand......, seeing that hammer and trigger stands out like a nose piercing. And I have 400 Starline cases already. Load them for my other .41 mags.
I seem to be a "firearm rescuer", I bought another 5 digit OM .357 last year that had the front sight notched for an insert, which was missing, Bought an OM .41 mag 40- serial # that had a buggered up ejector shroud screw lug that someone had tried to remedy and drilled a hole thru the barrel, Sent it off to Ruger, now has a NM barrel. Can't complain as they didn't charge me. A few years ago I bought a Win. Model 75 that was covered in surface rust, stripped it down and took some 0000 steel wool and oil to it, now sports a Lyman Super Target Spot and is a one holer at 50 yds. Bought a model 52 Win that had a coat of some kind of high-gloss stick

I saw the OP & knew there would be all kinds of differing opinions.

The gun appears to be in very good condition considering the modifications. Personally, I'd shoot it to see how it shoots before making any decisions.
If it's a good shooter,, I'd leave it as it is.

The fact it's a Flattop,, and those in general are sought after,, modifying it to a different caliber alters it beyond reversal in general.
The grip frame & grips can be easily replaced. Hammers & triggers can be replaced. And yes,, even the cerakote can be removed & the gun re-blued. That would restore it to almost an "as shipped" condition.

The .41 Spl. Due to the nature of the .41 magnum being "less popular" in the general sense,, the .41 Spl is a LOT less popular in the masses. Yes,, Starline finally did make brass & will do so occasionally,, but I seriously doubt we'll see the .41 Spl ever become a mainstream offering.

If I were truly wanting a .41 Spl,, and planned a conversion,, I'd search out a later production 3-screw with the protected ears that was rougher,, and in need of a restoration. More of those out there than Flattops. I'd not alter a Flattop.

Thanks Contender. As usual you offer some very good advice. I have an OM hammer and trigger in my parts bin, may have to at least do that. Don't relish the thought of holding cold steel in my hands, will wait a bit for a trip to the range. Thanks again.

 

[contender]

As a person who collects & appreciates stuff "as shipped" I like to see as many saved as possible. Between various events over their lifetime,, (1955 to 1963) the Flattops have been dwindling in numbers. (Fires, floods, LEO destruction, exports, customs, bubba destruction, etc,)
As a collector,, it just drives up the values of those left as is. That's good for people like me. But it also makes it harder for a newer collector to find an example to start a collection. And having a "less than perfect" condition one is where many collectors buy one while searching for one in better condition.

I get parts to where if I find a gun in need of restoration of something,, I can "fix" it. And the old FT's,, well, there are minor differences in the triggers,, and that may be a little harder. The grip frame & grips,, a little easier to replace, but still not quite as easy as replacing later stuff. (XR3 vs XR3-RED.)

Yeah,, it's a little cold in our areas right now,, and range time isn't fun. And it can also affect how well a gun can perform due to the "loose nut behind the trigger." :D

Shooter grade, rougher protected sighted guns are more plentiful. To give you an idea,, there were approximately 42689 FT .357's built. There were approximately 243551 protected sighted guns built. That's 200862 MORE protected sighted guns built than the FT's.

 

[rugerguy]

I agree with contender being already an early flatop leave her be, and little by little put 'er back to "original" ( no it will NOT be "original") but close enough,,,if one was doing a custom do like my late friend did and have a newer OM ( protective sight 357 mag) and turned into a 44 special by our friend Van, used to be in Sandusky OHio.........

 

[Hvymax]

As a person who collects & appreciates stuff "as shipped" I like to see as many saved as possible. Between various events over their lifetime,, (1955 to 1963) the Flattops have been dwindling in numbers. (Fires, floods, LEO destruction, exports, customs, bubba destruction, etc,)
As a collector,, it just drives up the values of those left as is. That's good for people like me. But it also makes it harder for a newer collector to find an example to start a collection. And having a "less than perfect" condition one is where many collectors buy one while searching for one in better condition.

I get parts to where if I find a gun in need of restoration of something,, I can "fix" it. And the old FT's,, well, there are minor differences in the triggers,, and that may be a little harder. The grip frame & grips,, a little easier to replace, but still not quite as easy as replacing later stuff. (XR3 vs XR3-RED.)

Yeah,, it's a little cold in our areas right now,, and range time isn't fun. And it can also affect how well a gun can perform due to the "loose nut behind the trigger." :D

Shooter grade, rougher protected sighted guns are more plentiful. To give you an idea,, there were approximately 42689 FT .357's built. There were approximately 243551 protected sighted guns built. That's 200862 MORE protected sighted guns built than the FT's.

I'm the exact opposite. Half the time I'll be throwing a slide on the mill or the barrel in the lathe as soon as I get home. Anyone can do normal

 

[Xrayist]

I would do with it what you want to do. The cost of converting it, if I read your post right, is switching out the current barrel with the one you already have in .41 mag caliber. I have had barrels switched on a few Blackhawks, the most recent a .44 Bisley that had the barrel cut, very poorly, to 5.5". I found a as new .44 7.5" and paid something like 50 bucks for it. My gunsmith charged me right around a 100 to swap the barrels out. The only step of the convesion I am not sure about is the cost of rechambering the current cylinder to .41 special. If you have the funds, you might find an original cylinder in .357, have that one fit and rebored, thus leaving you the possibility of returning it to factory configuration, although not as it left the factory as it has already been altered. If it were mine, I would convert it. I gave up the collecting part of firearms several years ago and now just do what makes me happy.

 

[Hvymax]

Whoever hosed it down did a decent job with the paint. If you change the barrel you'll probably need to redo the whole thing. Turnbull would really do that thing Justice!!!

 

[Joey]

I would do with it what you want to do. The cost of converting it, if I read your post right, is switching out the current barrel with the one you already have in .41 mag caliber. I have had barrels switched on a few Blackhawks, the most recent a .44 Bisley that had the barrel cut, very poorly, to 5.5". I found a as new .44 7.5" and paid something like 50 bucks for it. My gunsmith charged me right around a 100 to swap the barrels out. The only step of the convesion I am not sure about is the cost of rechambering the current cylinder to .41 special. If you have the funds, you might find an original cylinder in .357, have that one fit and rebored, thus leaving you the possibility of returning it to factory configuration, although not as it left the factory as it has already been altered. If it were mine, I would convert it. I gave up the collecting part of firearms several years ago and now just do what makes me happy.

After searching H&L I found an original OM 4 5/8 barrel to swap out with notched sight. There are several OM cylinders to be had, have thought about going that route, but as Contender said the OM flat tops are getting almost as rare as hens teeth, at least in good condition. and with this one's excellent mechanics I may pass it on down to someone with a bit more knowhow and deeper pockets to restore to original.

 

[Joey]

I'm the exact opposite. Half the time I'll be throwing a slide on the mill or the barrel in the lathe as soon as I get home. Anyone can do normal

And you would probably paint an emoji over Jesus and the disciples faces in The Last Supper painting if given the chance.

 

[Hvymax]

And you would probably paint an emoji over Jesus and the disciples faces in The Last Supper painting if given the chance.

Guns are made to function. I enhance them as far as I possibly can for my use. Besides I doubt Jesus looked anything like Michaelangelo's Brother in law. You would probably trash my use of foam blocks on my grips so that the gun actually fits my hand so I don't have to hunt for the dot or the sights every time I have to aim it. Not to mention optics etc. I suppose you probably have a safe full of guns that have never been fired. OMG a scope might mar the rail on my rifle

 

[G2]

I see no need to restore it,,, as one can buy an original condition (90% +) for way less money than what you would be in restoration. You might break even,,, IF you can find enthusiast that would appreciate a restoration.

Take the $$ have a nice custom whatever floats your boat. The OM 357 flattops are a very nice platform for a custom conversion. Top straps are thinner than the NM, and all the clicks are there… if ya know what I mean.

I bought this gun to use for a platform, it was IMO to nice, I don't care for the XR3 in magnum guns, So I made it mine and I really enjoy it. Just a grip frame change & grips of coarse.

This is a rough gun that was purchased to convert to 41 Special.

Got a good start.
Cylinder cleaned up and re-chambered, Cylinder frame got a good start on massage to remove the dings, dents, rust, etc., grip frame massaged, grips finished up, Cerakote.

Then this Harton custom 41M/41S was offered up FS here on the RF. Jumped on it.

Was going to sell/ part out the original project, and then decided to keep it and make it a shortie. 41Special
Found a different barrel, shortened it & ERH. SBH Hammer, Still working on getting it done, will post a pic when done.
The 2 together.

IMO the money is better spent building a custom gun and for what ever reason the Re Blue, Color Case, Mixmaster of parts has better value retention, and we all know right now 41 Special is,,, well “SPECIAL”

Just like the 44 Special was a few years ago…

 

[Joey]

All beautimous guns G2. Haven't seen an ugly one in your stable yet!

 

[xtratoy]

All eautimous guns G2. Haven't seen an ugly one in your stable yet!

Did you forget a b?

 

[Joey]

Did you forget a b?

Yes I did. Thanks much. All better now.

 

[Fox Mike]

Joey; bottom line; it's your gun. It's your money. Do with it what you want. Lots of good advice given here. Personally I would try to restore it to it's original look.

 

[Joey]

Joey; bottom line; it's your gun. It's your money. Do with it what you want. Lots of good advice given here. Personally I would try to restore it to it's original look.

With the like out-of-the-box mechanics of this BH, that is becoming more and more my opinion. Two options on the grip frame, replace or paint. I have a hammer and trigger I can replace these with, strip the cerakote and re-blue it, find some original grips. Do it a little at a time as someone suggested. Or I may do the hammer swap and call it done. Does anyone have a XR-3 gf and original grips they can part with?