A scenario for consideration...

[Selena]

First off lets review the Beslan school massacre in the Ukraine in 2004 a moment where a couple dozen trained guerrillas took over a school during a special assembly and held children and parents hostage for several days. For the sake of my sensitivities we will overlook the rapes and murder of children.

Now let's look at the impact of one or two untrained nut cases in the school shootings in the US in recent times.

Finally the scenario... Let's imagine a terrorist group of Martians (with apologies to any Mars citizens or space cadets in the audience) that were trained and had the planning made a similar siege in the US. Including the prep work of caching weapons and explosives in the school etc. etc. etc. How could such a situation be rectified with a minimum of bloodshed to the hostages and yet not violate the terrorists' "right to life" as defined by the European Court of Human Rights. And more importantly do you believe that law enforcement on any level is prepared for such a horrific possibility?

My own opinion is quite simple... The devil with the European Court of Human Rights and stage an Entebbe style raid with the phrase "extreme prejudice" listed in the mission briefing on every page in big black bolded underlined letters.

 

[vito]

I have long been surprised that home grown terrorist attacks have not yet picked a school for their carnage. As bad as the pressure cooker bombs were during the Boston Marathon, or the trucks driven on sidewalks incidents, things could have been much worse had schools, and particularly elementary schools picked for the site of their acts. Even after the school shooting in Newtown, and even now after the high school shooting in Florida, it appears that the bulk of school administrators and teachers want no part of armed defense of their schools. Many schools around the nation have a security officer of some type. But even if armed and trained, this officer is just one person who could be easily targeted by terrorists and eliminated in the first seconds of the attack. (FWIW, security is much easier to maintain in a truly hostile environment where vigilance and heightened attention are needed constantly. In the typical school where virtually nothing happens that raises the awareness level of the lone police officer or security guard, complacency is virtually impossible to avoid. In such an environment a well dressed adult who is the first arriving terrorist would have little trouble approaching and then killing the lone security individual, allowing his cohorts easy and unrestricted entry into the school building.)

Maybe it will take a Beslan like incident to wake up those who want to live in the fantasy world of believing that if only a new law was passed outlawing scary looking rifles then all would be well. Israel learned the hard way that terrorists seeking to adversely impact the morale of the civilian population will choose children as their target. All Israelie schools are fortified and guarded. In the occupied West Bank area all teachers carry true assault rifles (to the best of my knowledge). At some point I think it is inevitable that we see an attack on a school that is more than one or two untrained but evil teenagers seeking revenge for perceived bullying or some such motivation. It people think Newtown was bad, just imagine if instead of one mentally ill American the attacking force was 5 or 8 well trained radical Islamists who were prepared to die in their effort to massacre as many innocent American children as was possible. And still little or nothing is being done to prepare for such an event.

All of my children are grown, but I have several of my 12 grandchildren are still of school age. I pray that when the inevitable happens it not include those dear to me.

 

[GunnyGene]

Ordinary people in the US don't think about military style attacks, because they believe it could never happen here. Someday it will, and when it does everything will change. There is certainly no scarcity of soft targets; schools or otherwise.

 

[contender]

"Maybe it will take a Beslan like incident to wake up those who want to live in the fantasy world of believing that if only a new law was passed outlawing scary looking rifles then all would be well. Israel learned the hard way that terrorists seeking to adversely impact the morale of the civilian population will choose children as their target. All Israelie schools are fortified and guarded. In the occupied West Bank area all teachers carry true assault rifles (to the best of my knowledge). At some point I think it is inevitable that we see an attack on a school that is more than one or two untrained but evil teenagers seeking revenge for perceived bullying or some such motivation. It people think Newtown was bad, just imagine if instead of one mentally ill American the attacking force was 5 or 8 well trained radical Islamists who were prepared to die in their effort to massacre as many innocent American children as was possible. And still little or nothing is being done to prepare for such an event."

^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS^^^^^^^^^^

In all the current debates about arming teachers etc,,, every chance I get,, I ask those who may have influence; "Do you recall what happened in an Israeli school?" So far,,, I've not had a SINGLE person reply with any real facts about it. Now, in some of my discussions,, I have had with LEO etc,,, yes,, I have had some of them know about it, and the way the Israelis handled it. Sadly, I missed an opportunity yesterday to attend a local discussion about school safety where it was an open event. The panel of folks included a local Sheriff I know, as well as school admins & church leaders etc.

Sadly, even if we did have a terrorist group attack a school,,, I doubt the populace mentality would change much as there are too many entrenched anti-gun types that do not want facts, and operate off emotions.

 

[Bear Paw Jack]

I agree it's just a matter of time before home grown terrorists use our schools for their own purposes. I am concerned that police will want to wait for back up, and need a lay out of the school, and all kinds of information while terrorists move from shooting kids to cutting their throats and police will think all is well because the shooting ended. Then they will offer to negotiate while the killing continues. In addition to needing training, teachers, parents and police are not really as prepared as they think for such an unthinkable atrocity to occur. It's time to do something now. It's coming.
And it's coming because they can see what an easy target schools are. They learn quickly, our weaknesses.

 

[blume357]

Sounds like y'all have been in a presentation by Dave Grossman. I was in one a few weeks ago and that is exactly what he says is going to happen. One of the problems with the current knee jerk reactions to the latest atrocities here is people think these evil single mass killers just all of a sudden went over the edge when in fact they spend months planning their attack. The FBI actually has known this for years and now even realize that while planning an attack like this they also study law enforcement and know exactly what is going to be done to stop them. This is actually a war of strategies... the sad truth is whether it is one lone killer or a group, people are going to be hurt and killed. The only level of success is reducing this number. I remember in the Sheep Dog seminar I took that there is only one thing these fanatics fear... and that is failure.

 

[GunnyGene]

Given the recent bombings in Austin, your scenario is not far fetched.

 

[Mobuck]

We(the USA) have assets to counter this sort of scenario BUT I'm not sure the "fluffy bunny" politicians would allow the use of such extreme force even against terrorists harming children. Such actions taking place half way around the world would be seen differently if they happened in Atlanta or Denver.

Grouch Attack and I just had a discussion of the outcome of a similar local act of domestic terrorism. It's been a long time since I was involved with tactics and such but I certainly remember the general ideas of defending people, objects, and terrain. Our county Sheriff has no such background and I seriously doubt his Deputies have much(well, any). The problem is these officers don't seem to understand or care that their school evacuation plan is perfect for placing the children in an indefensible killing field. Add in the fact that there's some arrogance and the idea that "civilians" don't know ANYTHING and you have a disaster just waiting to happen.

 

[blume357]

Mobuck,

this has all changed and Parkland seems to not have followed the latest strategy ... the one thing you do not do in an event like this is evacuate immediately... someone needs to be in charge to access the situation and then determine if an evacuation is prudent... until that time you lock down ... I know it is hard to believe but our government's new teaching is first if possible run.... get out... help others out if prudent.... if you can't safety escape then hide, cover is better than concealment.... and if that fails you should already have a plan for the last option... and that is fight and I mean fight.... every time I sit in one of these films or seminars when they get to the fight part I am reminded of the scene in Three Days of the Condor when the professional assassin dressed as a postman attacks Robert Redford the book worm in his apartment.... it is one of the best realistic fight scenes for life and death made.... Redford uses just about everything in the apartment to stop this guy from killing him.
The latest LEO teachings is first on the scene goes in and tries to stop the threat... no waiting for backup or a supervisor. .

 

[Mobuck]

Anyone with a modicum of knowledge can empty a school in minutes.

 

[blume357]

That's actually one of the things that needs to change.