'59 Flattop .44 - Two Puzzlers - Need Brain Power

[Marcruger2]

Riddles.......

Problem No. 1 - Base Pin is an ongoing frustrating issue. Original factory base pin with collar peened badly on the rear side of the football-shaped latch recess in the pin. A beast to remove. Tried earlier Colt style Ruger factory pin (no collar), but it would not stay in revolver. Replaced base pin latch assembly. Early pin still would not hold. Bought Powers Number 5 style pin (removed NM plunger). It lasted a couple of hundred rounds, but that pin too peened up a lip at rear of football shaped cut. Stayed in place though. Beast to remove x2. Gun is otherwise 99+%, so not abused. Only lswc .44 Special through it. Help please?

Problem No. 2 - Same revolver. Last session upon firing mild .44 Special the gate was opened to reload. Something bounced off my shooting hand thumb and felt like a loose primer. I checked all cartridge cases, no missing primers. I noticed a small ball-point-pen style spring drop out (I saved it). Sight is good. Base pin latch good. Trigger return spring....all good. The only thing I can think of is the gate spring??? The gate opens and closes fine, and stay in either position. Gate does not open on firing. It does not give a hard "snap" on closing, but again it works fine. If it is the gate plunger that fell out......why? Where could I find a replacement one? Whatever part left the revolver, it was lost in long grass.

Any clues or answers would be greatly appreciated gents and ladies. God Bless, Marc

 

[contender]

Base pin issues have popped up from time to time. Usually it's them coming out or just moving forward. The peening of the groove is a little odd. Especially if you are not shooting hot magnum loads & only .44 spls.
Interesting.

The spring.
Have you got a good exploded diagram of the parts in your gun? It can help identify parts,, and possibly a missing part. I've been known to use a wide roller magnet in grass & weeds to find small parts I've lost.
I'd first study the parts diagram & the spring closely. Compare it to others from another gun can help too.

Sounds like a good time to do a CAREFUL disassembly of the gun to see if you can find anything missing.

 

[peachhead]

Could have been:

Base pin latch and spring. I've had that happen before.

Trigger spring/plunger, would be fairly easy to tell if that were missing

Pawl spring and plunger. That would be weird though as I have not known those to come out without being disassembled.

Rear sight spring, they are fairly small though

Not too many ballpoint type springs to choose from.

 

[Marcruger2]

I agree that there are few coil "ballpoint pen" springs in a Blackhawk. The base pin latch's spring is in place, as is the trigger return plunger and spring. The awl spring is functioning, so it must still be safely inside. I am guessing it is the gate plunger and spring. Wonder how that plunger got out? Weird, right? Odd that the gate seems to still function.

As Tyrone said, time to sit down with the Kuhnhausen manual, and slowly go through everything.

Many thanks, and God Bless, Marc

 

[Johnnu2]

Here are my speculations:

1) Every time I've had those exact symptoms, I remover the latch assembly and put the individual pieces back in (in REVERSE order (left to right) from the way they came out). Every time I did this, it worked. A trick I use is to look into the hole where the base pin goes while depressing the latch 'button'; when the latch assembly is in incorrectly, you can see that it is not opening enough to allow the pin to "clear it" cleanly. IF it turns out that the latch assembly is correctly in place, I've found that just slightly unscrewing the assembly will allow the latch some additional "travel" to place the pin recess in a more central point thus allowing the pin to "clear" and release more easily (LokTite the screw at that "setting"). The hint (to me) is that it is a "BEAST" to pull the pin out when the latch is not completely releasing the pin.
2) Loading gate latch: Once again, a bubba-type gunsmith (like me) may have "re-assembled" your gate latch parts incorrectly. Take the screw (bottom of cyl, frame) out and then be sure that you remove a short spring and a detent (if I recall correctly it has a flat bottom and maybe a circular/'pointed' top. Sometimes, bubba put them back in an incorrect order. IF I'm correct, you may find that the detent is still in your frame but the spring is missing. The correct order for reassembly is: put the detent into the hole FIRST, then the spring and then the screw.
Hope this is helpful (and actually works for you)... p.s. I have that exact gun, Dec. 1959 dt of mfg.
J.

 

[kendog]

.... If it is the gate plunger that fell out......why? Where could I find a replacement one? ...

Try Jack First for a fair amount of original OEM and used OM parts.

 

[thinckley]

Try Jack First for a fair amount of original OEM and used OM parts.

Dude... seriously... why do you keep re-opening old threads with the same thing? Do you work for him?

 

[Cholo]

Marcruger2 started a thread about two issues he has with his Ruger. I deleted every post regarding a relatively new member selling a Ruger who doesn't yet qualify for using the Classifieds .

Let's get back on the main topic.

 

[kendog]

My apologies for jumping the gun.

 

[Hondo44]

I wonder if the poster from last Aug is even still around.

1. I've never had to resort to an aftermarket or locking Cyl pin. I've always been able to correct cyl pin 'jump' by re-fitting the cyl pin groove or latch and sometimes a stronger spring.

2. I'm presuming since the gun is a 44 Spl that it's a new model (unless it's a converted OM but I doubt that).

Therefore I suspect it's the cylinder pin plunger in the rear end of the cyl pin. There's no other internal springs that can escape from an assembled gun, period.
Especially the gate spring on a new model!!
Not withstanding the sight and cyl pin latch that would be obvious.

 

[Joey]

He said the gate closed and opened properly, I have test assembled om without the plunger/spring in it, and it just swings open. I have a hard enough time removing a NM gate spring, no way it could fall out. So I second your opinion. Only thing is he didn't say anything about it not cocking.

I wondered the same thing, been a while.

 

[thinckley]

2. I'm presuming since the gun is a 44 Spl that it's a new model (unless it's a converted OM but I doubt that).

He never said it was a 44 special. He said he only shoots 44 special. The gun is a 1959 '44 Mag Flattop. I have one from '58. It is too light for enjoyable 44 mag shooting, but great for 44 special.

 

[Hondo44]

Thank you.

Good catch. I should have tumbled to that when he said he checked the trigger return spring. But how did you know it was a '59 44 Mag FT?

 

[thinckley]

Thank you.

Good catch. I should have tumbled to that when he said he checked the trigger return spring. But how did you know it was a '59 44 Mag FT?

Thread Title

 

[Hondo44]

Oh brother....... I'm going back to bed now. This brain isn't working!

 

[Marcruger2]

Hi Hondo, I am still here. Frankly, I got so demoralized by this Flattop that it has been sitting silent in the safe.

In my experience, there are some guns that are just right, accurate, and shootable right out of the box. I absolutely love an enthusiastically good firearm.

On the other hand, there are some guns that I really want to like, but they seem to throw hissy fits on the way to getting them to shoot well.

The Flattop in question I inherited from my dad, and I was with him when he bought it many years ago. He never shot it, and I think it has very few rounds. 99+% condition. I really want to like it. I really do. Decent trigger, smooth action, very accurate with my favorite lead handload. But every time I have shot it......a basepin headache.

These little nagging issues are such a pain that I wonder if it should go to a collector's safe. I am not a "collector" and enjoy shooting my guns.....but protect the finish.

Maybe the small spring had nothing to do with this revolver, but was sitting on the gun when I picked it up. Very long shot, but who knows. There are only so many small ballpoint pen style springs in a Flattop.

Y'all have a great evening. Marc

 

[Hondo44]

Hi Mark,

Cylinder base pin :
I would order a Wolff spring replacement from Midway or Brownell's parts suppliers. Just Google. They make a stronger spring.

I wouldn't replace the base pin on a family heirloom especially one that's not only collectable, but also that's in such great condition!

And I'd forget about the mystery spring; if the gun functions it didn't come from your 44.

Let us know how it turns out and have fun.